No Private Thoughts Allowed ?


April 29, 2014  7:43am
Good morning Mayor, Council and Candidates,
Manager Kisela has recently made demands of me citing the recently adopted Electronic Information Systems ordinance without ever clearly stating the records he wanted produced, OR his authority to compel such production.  In doing so I believe he has exceeded the authority bestowed in that ordinance and his own authority relative to that ordinance.   I have advised him that I am seeking legal analysis of his demand and will respond when that analysis has been delivered to me.
The issues here are not inconsequential for any lover of our fundamental rights, AND BEFORE the state can compel a citizen to produce a ‘record’ of which it has no knowledge even exists, ( beyond speculation – such as a bcc’d list ) ,    THE ISSUE of whether that ‘record’ was created by an individual in his or her private role as a city resident must be decided, AND THAT decision must involve due process including consideration of that residents  intent.
The speed and lack of consideration with which the Manager would extinguish my 1st, 4th and 5th Amendment rights as a private citizen with his un-specified demands, tells me his motivation is not so much about preserving public records as it is stifling criticism,  AND advancing  the political interests of his chosen candidate.
Some months ago a member of the ABAB  recently turned Candidate for Council, objected to my having indicated my ABAB position in an e-mail critical of Manager Kisela. In deference to that member’s objection  or to any other member who may not share my views I have not made reference to my position or membership on the ABAB  in any subsequent e-mails.
Apparently not satisfied with that concession she advised at the Council meeting on April 22nd  that if  all criticism of Manager Kisela’s incompetent administration is not stifled – the ABAB should be dissolved.  The manager apparently pleased with her defense responded in kind with his continuing demands of me.
I have no problem with my grousing comments, un-deniably critical of Manager Kisela’s administration being deemed a public record. I send them to the Manager knowing they will be posted on the City web site, And to various blogs knowing they will be similarly posed.
BUT WHAT I subsequently  do with those e-mails – if anything;   And whom I share them with – if anyone, is not the governments business,
That is not a prospect I would relish and neither should you.
Your manager’s leash needs to be tightened in this and other areas.
Ted Noftall

—–Original Message—–
From: Kisela, Greg []
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 9:52 AM
To: Ted Noftall; Fenwick, Robin; Roberts, Margaret
Subject: RE: Not so fast Mr. Kisela
GregKiselaTed: If asking someone politely to produce public records demonstrates a lack of courage than I guess I am guilty of that.    Please do not limit your production to  only what Robin “believes” I am looking for.   My request was for all public records.
The City Attorney advised me yesterday that you have sought her guidance before you will produce the record(s).     Your e-mail confirms  that. Thank you.
Greg Kisela
City Manager


From: Ted Noftall []
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:58 AM
To: ‘Kisela, Greg’; Robin Fenwick (; ‘Roberts, Margaret’
Subject: Re: Not so fast Mr. Kisela

TedNoftallManager Kisela,
I am disappointed that you do not have the courage to clearly explain what you are requesting yourself,  or why you are requesting it,  or on whose behalf you are requesting it.
Nonetheless, now that you have had Robin disclose what she  “believes”  you are looking for,  let me advise that I have sought legal analysis of your request and will get back to you on this matter once that analysis has been delivered to me.
Ted Noftall

—–Original Message—–
From: Fenwick, Robin []
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:35 PM
To: Ted Noftall; Roberts, Margaret
Cc: Noftall, Ted; Kisela, Greg
Subject: RE: Not so fast Mr. Kisela
The email has been received is preserved; however, if the email had anyone “blind copied” (BCC) those email addresses are a public record and need to be submitted. I believe that is what Mr. Kisela is asking you to provide.
Hope this helps,

From: Ted Noftall []
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:32 PM
To: Roberts, Margaret
Cc: Noftall, Ted; Fenwick, Robin; Kisela, Greg
Subject: RE: Not so fast Mr. Kisela
TedNoftallGood afternoon Margaret,
Can you help me understand which specific  “public records ” Manager Kisela is requesting that I forward to the City clerk pursuant to the “City’s newly adopted Electronic Information Systems ordinance”
The e-mail in question was sent  to Manager Kisela,  and while  it was not originally copied to the City clerk it has been on several occasions since.
How at this point can the e-mail in question,  or this one,  or any other one that I send to a City e-mail address  not be preserved in the public records of Port Orange.
Ted Noftall

4 thoughts on “No Private Thoughts Allowed ?

  • April 29, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    Why won’t the CM tell you and us exactly what so called public records he is referring to? It looked to me to be a private E-Mail about screw ups under his management.

  • April 29, 2014 at 9:51 pm

    I think the council should establish a comfortable, viable, and safe pathway of communication between the employees in the field that actually do the work and the city council. If the city manager and his I.C.M.A. senior management team have nothing to conceal they should be totally comfortable with this.
    This way ideas and solutions to some of the city’s major challenges and problems could possibly emerge from people that have no skin in the game politically. It seems like our CM and a number of his senior management team actively try to shut down this type of think tank and spend more time suppressing creative thinking and stakeholder mentality.
    It seems as though if they are incapable of solving the city’s major challenges they will be darned if anyone else will be allowed to do so. Especially anyone that is free thinking and not an obsequious butt kisser.
    The great industrialist Andrew Carnegie surrounded himself with a lot of free thinking, intelligent, self determined individuals that accentuated his greatness. He did not look to be surrounded by appendages of his own ego who’s sole purpose was to validate his own self deception.
    Council wake up and smell the coffee!

  • April 30, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    Response to food for thought
    This reminds me of when the reclaimed lakes project was underway. We were sold on the sock pipe wells for pumping out of the lakes, Myself and the assistant utilities director at that time both said that they would not work and we were told to shut up. I was threatened with firing if I said anymore about it. As it turned out they did not perform as we were told they would.
    I wanted those responsible for this held accountable. Again I was told to shut up or be fired. I was told if council finds out about this that the director of utilities and the city manager would be fired for the screw up after the millions of wasted dollars and if they went down they would take me with them. I was told the project was going through as designed because the mayor and manager wanted it fast tracked and done ASAP. I just wanted it done right.
    I put up with this crap for years for pointing out things that were wrong or a waste of money. All the wasted money in the reclaimed augmentation facilities and lakes is just one example so a certain politician that sits between the city attorney and the vice mayor could thump his chest over how much he has done for the environment and the river. Now because it was not done right we are pumping into the mayor’s precious river.
    How ironic. We keep putting people in charge that don’t have practical working knowledge of utilities and aren’t capable of giving the city manager and council good sound advice. The city needs to promote from within the department so they can have a (REAL EXPERT) running things.
    Food for thought is right. Council needs to talk to the experienced knowledgeable employees (THE REAL EXPERTS) if they want straight answers and solutions. Management does not want this as it does not jive with their agenda of a self promoting dishonest political game. I know the people that can straighten out the utilities department. They work there now but someone is standing on their necks.

  • May 1, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    Racial Advocate Pursues Quest To Thwart Lauderdale Officials
    By Brittany Wallman Staff writer, June 28, 2003
    Elgin Jones is still carrying on his crusade. The city’s racism whistle-blower may be gone from City Hall, carrying with him the $455,000 settlement of his racial discrimination and retaliation lawsuit. But he hasn’t gone far. This week, he helped torpedo new employment for assistant city manager Greg Kisela. Before that, Jones helped sink a job offer made to former assistant city manager Pete Witschen. Jones is making good on his vow to trail Fort Lauderdale’s administrators so that no one will forget the racial troubles that wrapped City Hall in a web of complaints, lawsuits, settlements, anger and bad publicity for years.


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