???????? UNBELIEVABLE ???????? Less than three months on the job ?
Another scandal or better position elsewhere ? The city is imploding !
Hopefully Wayne Saunders is typing his letter now.
From what I observed this guy had his shit together and it is Port Orange’s loss. Probably got a job paying much more somewhere else. Port Orange is way behind the times salary wise for professionals that work for the city in any capacity where state licenses or state certification is required.. Their Utility Departments are grossly underpaid compared to other cities and I know this to be a fact as my son works in this sector. How can the city expect to keep good people and attract intelligent new employees if they are not competive?
I would suggest that Council Members start searching within the city where there are many, many qualified people to fill job slots receintly opened. I would also suggest that Mayor Green doesn’t have too much input on selections as he already has a list of targeted employees who have opposd him on his “TO DO LIST:destroy or discredit.
Well said and spot on Margaret.
I agree Margaret. This guy really seemed to have it all together. Is the CM going to run that department too? They’re dropping like dominos. I think the city is skating on thin ice. They do need to move some people up quickly and fill some of these slots. The mayor and CM have set a bad tone for the workforce. After what happened to the purchasing manager it would be difficult for anyone to feel good about working for the city. Every employee must feel like they have a target on their back. That’s good for morale.
I really liked the way Chief Pozzo represented himself and the City. Seemed like a really intelligent and squared away guy. Wish him well!
Looks like his last job was a consultant for the ICCMA. Not sure what really went wrong here but birds of a feather flock together. Will he be migrating to the panhandle? He seemed to be a well versed individual.
The City of Port Orange has continuously failed by recruiting management from the outside. Do you really believe that we don’t have long term employees that are capable? And if so why aren’t they? They already have the working knowledge and respect earned from fellow employees. Your past practices are disrespectful, demoralizing, and obviously failing. Do you think it’s time for change? Succession planning will always pay dividends. Hey Drew why don’t you toss your name in the hat this time around?
Good gravy…maybe I was premature in my assessment of him. If he has ANYTHING at all to do with the ICCMA then llke Tony Soprano says “forgetabout it”. As to the rest of my blog I stand by it.
Shelly, Zicker, Yarborough, Pozzo, Pike, Roger Smith, Kisela and the beat goes on.
From what I hear, Chief Pozzo was a very competent fire chief. Maybe he wasn’t allowed to do his job, you know, be in charge of the fire department. Was there interference? Just asking.
If Kisela and Green has interfered with the Fire Department in the same way they have interfered in Public Utilities the new fire chief was fighting a loosing battle. Kisela is only looking for MIT appendages to be a part of his senior management team. You know covert narcissists are pathological control artists and typically very incompetent. They fain competency and like to characterize themselves as possessing certain expertise, but cannot back their claims up with results. They feel that if they can’t do it no one can, and so they prevent anyone else from taking the reigns and solving the problems because they fear other’s success will confirm their own incompetency. That is why they only want people in their management team to compliment their own ego, be there for fluff and window trimming, and act as an appendage of their own persona. Kisela is easily upstaged, so he eschews having any alpha people around him.
Yes Bob, Mayor Green said that some city council person was interfering with some department, so perhaps it was the the Fire Chief’s department.. You hope? It’s ok to speculate, but not ok to tell what the real truth is. Are you speculating Bob? Speculation is ok with me, but I understand not ok with you. Do you think Mayor Green should tell us who that city council man is. I do.
IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO GET THE REAL STORY BUT DO YOU THINK WE EVER WILL?
Hello Margaret. As a departmental head, you answer to the city manager, not to a councilman. If council interfered with the job of of a department head, such as Chief Pozzo, that is an ethical violation and illegal.
Ironic Bob that when you were on teh council you were running the fire dept too. Remember when you decided how many paramedics should be on the payroll? Or when you wanted the dept to respond in small pick up trucks? You violated the city charter yourself so it is interesting that you now think its wrong for the council to run individual departments. Lest we forget that you were on the council when things began to fall apart. You, Alan Green and Dennis Kennedy were always the 3 votes needed to run the city into the ground. Hope you are proud!
Actually I am quite proud of what was accomplished when I was on council. Not like today when nothing is accomplished because of the division. Just to clarify a few things that you choose to forget. When the council was trying to cut costs it was suggested that smaller vehicles responded to medical calls instead of bringing a fire truck to a non fire situation, something along the lines of a medically equipped Chevy SUV. I still support that considering that about 98% of all calls are medically related. That doesn’t make sense to you? Instead the fire department had to have a $250,000 combination ambulance/fire apparatus that was not needed. So what has happened to that apparatus? It is now considered surplus, out of use. That money would have been better used to purchase a new fire truck. When the fire union refused to cooperate with the city, as all the other unions did, on cost reductions some decisions had to be made by council. You seem to forget that the council represents the interests of 56,000 residents. Yes, I supported a cut back on the total number of paramedics on shift at any given time. It helped keep the tax rate affordable for everyone as a means of cost savings.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you are completely wrong. The city was quite successful when I was on council and many things were completed whether you chose to remember them or not. If you want a list of accomplishments let me know.
But the main thing you need to remember is that all these conversations that you mention were done in the open, at council meetings, not behind the scene. From what I hear some council members are going to the department heads and are trying to dictate policy. That is a violation of the law. So don’t be so selective about what you choose to remember. Look at the big picture. If you believe things fell apart while I was on council how come your hero’s on council have allowed it to get much worse?
It is ok for council members to talk to employees as per the city charter. It is the job of council to dictate policy as a group in public. Council members can talk to citizens and employees and bring their concerns and ideas to council for consideration. That is part of their duties.
Its cute that you are proud but your votes during that time created the mess we are in now. You knew nothing of fire operations then and still know nothing. You were in the pocket of EVAC and used their biased information to formulate your position on fire services. I hope you are proud to have wanted to outsource all of our public safety, police and fire, to the county. You climed poverty over and over when the city was never in any danger fiscally. You put citizens at risk and never listed to the majority of those 56,000. You let one or two vocal citizens control the agenda and you followed like a puppy. In the end it rightfully cost you a seat on the council. But your legacy lives on since now we can not retain talented employees because the tempo of the council is to let minority opinion lead the way. Good work councilman. We used to be the city all others looked up to now we seem to be one of the worst places to work in central Florida. Stay proud and blame others, it how you always did business
Bob I would like to know which council members have gone to departmental heads and dictated policy? I suspect you have inside information from Mayor Green, and why can’t you and Green share it with us. Bob Ford had told me face to face that the city council members by some rule, can not directly get involved in personnel operations of the city. Tell us Bob, who are those erring city council members.
It had seemed to me that the city was at fault for a prolonged labor negotiating chore with the pofd union because the proposal, or ulitmatum given to the fire union ” take the whole package, and we the city will not discuss individuals items of your concerns. Take the package we the city are offering you or you get nothing.” Tell me Bob if it is not true that that was the unreasonable stance of the city when negotiating with the fire union in the last contract.
Absolutely right Bob.
The city manager answers to council. If they see things wrong or right at any department level they can address them with the CM. I have seen this done at council meetings in the sunshine. Ultimately all city employees answer to council. The CM is the middle man. If they see money being wasted or misspent and employees not performing well should they turn a blind eye to it or look out for the tax paying citizens? Is that what is being referred to as interference? Spin it any way you want.
Looks like the Green Kisela regime has run off another key hire and demonstrated further evidence that Green’s organizational paradigm is rapidly imploding, and it is not only time for a new city manager, but it is time for a new mayor.
Yes dear Floki.. in MHO…. you are correct…. so what are our options?….. unfortunately a recall of the mayor by whatever the Charter deems as required would probably take us until the end of his term and be an exercise in futility… but maybe a critical moral victory…. maybe just mounting a recall effort would be effective as a tool… not sure on that one… any thoughts??…..
.. but for sure what we have to do until that blessed day arrives and he is gone… and there is another face up there who puts the taxpayer first and has fewer allegiances… is hold Mayor Green accountable…and make it hot for him and council members who walk in lockstep with him ….. and our only weapon we have is to show up and be vocal and use the power of public opinion…. and demand transparency and honest straight forward answers….
…man …. they just cannot seem to control the conversation at all lately… I would think they would be getting this data out sooner rather than later..one blindside after another for city officials…. this drip drip drip of bad news looks awful and I think our local media outlets are beginning to smell blood in the water…
…we really need our media to begin to look into some of these business associations that are driving a lot of these decisions by council and that are borne by the taxpayer…. I love capitalism….. not at all anti development …. but let’s let it be unfettered capitalism… this unseen and undisclosed hand from developers like Buddy LaCour in my wallet all the time is making me crazy… transfers of wealth from us to them… it just ain’t right….. what about the developers in this and the 5 other CRAs who seem to be making it on their own….. where is their TIF? and hell…. if you cannot make it on prime riverfront land without taxpayer help, where could you be successful?
..you know my mantra….. we need numbers in attendance at CC meetings… and all the special meetings where the taxpayer’s wallet is getting hit with statements/questions to council from concerned and informed citizens… we have to keep our little ship of state afloat here until we have some new council members up there to change the vote from 3/2 to 4/1 …
…yeah…. we thought Chief Pozzo seemed competent too… wish we knew the back story on all this stuff… we know its there… something happened to drive his decision….
..hope any of you guys out there in Blog Land who know or remember some of the histories of these various relationships will get them on the blogs… THANK YOU ROD FOR THAT REMINDER… lots of revisionists of history out there aren’t there? Once they get off council, they have become statesmen in their own minds… and they try to spin it that way…
Floki. Without any facts you automatically blame Kisela and Green. Maybe, just maybe, there were other reasons for his departure. Maybe, just maybe, some other council members were responsible for his departure. Maybe, just maybe, someone else ran off this competent fire chief. Know what you are talking about before you make a comment.
wow Bob! do you know something we do not?. Let us in on your secret information and let us know if it came from Mayor Green.
Come Hank even you know there is an ex firefighter on the council, don’t think for one minute he does not have is fingers in the mix. He goes to an arbitration and signs in as a retired firefighter and sits with union not with the city and he pulls for the city to lose the arbitration and money. If you don’t believe pull the records the truth will set you free.
Your absolutely right, I did attend the arbitration hearing as a citizen of Port Orange. I signed in as a retired firefighter because I was not there in any official capacity. I did not sit at the table but sat along the glass wall so I could see outside. I did not speak at the hearing and I didn’t pull for anyone. It was purely an educational opportunity for me as I had never sat in a wrongful termination arbitration hearing before. I attended in full view of everyone and did not hide, I read the sign in sheet and there wasn’t a Kurt Austin signed in. It’s easy to hide behind an alias. And if you think that I ever interfered with Chief Pozzo you are WRONG! I spoke with The Chief and I know why he left, but my conversation with him is and will be kept private. If you have any solid information please share it, and don’t use an alias.
Mr. Austin, is that is your real name or someone else just doing the mayor’s dirty work? Regardless, you should have all the facts before you spout off. The city has quite a history of trying to screw the firefighters and the vast majority of the time they come out on the losing end. Guess who ends up paying for their incompetence, arrogance and greed. The taxpayer, that’s who! The city is playing with taxpayer money when they violate the union contract and bring on grievances and the resulting arbitrations but in their arrogance they don’t care because it isn’t coming out of any of their pockets. Their only objective is to cause the union stress and drain their funds. The union on the other hand pays for lawyer and arbitrators fees out of their own pockets, but that’s the cost for standing up for what’s right. Its refreshing and a sign of hope when a councilman displays a backbone and stands up for what’s right knowing full well that comments from people like you will try and turn it into something negative. Get the facts on what the arbitration is about and see the city’s history on this subject before making your comments. That is of course unless you are working for the little tyrant and in that case right and wrong doesn’t matter, just getting his way is.
Drew has integrity and he takes care of business at the council meetings. Do you really think anyone believes the BS that you posted? Are you one of the mayors do boys? We need more council members like him and Bob Ford. They have the guts to stand up for the people unlike a certain little tyrant. I hope that Burnett and Kennedy start showing the same amount of backbone.
So wrongful termination arbitration hearings are open to the public? Where can we find the schedule and minutes of these meetings? Or are these some more of the cities closed door meetings. I think I would like to have that learning experience to.
Oh yes Kurt, I am aware of what can become baggage for a city councilman, and I am alert to this always. I was alert to bob Ford when he seemed to raise objections but not push for resolutions from the city council to remedy some of these bad situations and I have since realized that Bob as a city council man has to think long term, and timing is very crucial to what a city council man recommends. I am watching Drew and I think he needs to be more passionate about some of the negative things we have been seeing. But then again, if I were a council man and wanted to be re elected, I myself might consider that other’s are doing a good job of spear heading for reform, and so best for me now to just quietly support them.
Generally, I think the more that city council people do not make it clear, that they are very upset with the culture of “team players” around Mayor Green, that those city council people might just find it hard to be reelected. Don Burnette probably would like to be the next mayor, but his opposition may very well point out that Don had protested when these bad revelations came out, but did little to move for resolutions about them from the city council.
I now fully trust Bb Ford. His heart is in the right place, for the tax payes of Port Orange, although I had thought Bob should have been offering more resolutions for the council to vote on, I see where timing is an important element of playing the city council game. Perhaps after the next election will be able to see the city council as a whole become forceful and by resolution institute some meaningful reform. The situation has gotten worse since Parker’s mistakes.
Bob, are you naive or just a diabolical person. Are you still working for Mayor Green? Please, tell us what you know. Speculating is ok with me, but your speculation seems to infer that you know something. Please, don’t you and the Mayor keep the information to yourselves. Tell us what the truth is. Speculation tells us how you are thinking and your speculation is kind of ignoring the truthful history of what we have been seeing. Are you still thinking Port Orange is better than New Jersey as politics go? Bob, I am starting to think you are not such a naive person. What is your game? Why in the world would you try and defend a city administration which has been exposed about so many nefarious cover ups, loss of money, and favorable to wasting tax payers’ money. Tell me Bob. what is it with you and this Mayor?
Here’s a little ditty about Allen, Dianne.
A good position opened up in my division due to the retirement of the person that held it. The chief operator at the waste water plant that was either a good friend or relative of our mayor recommended someone for the job that was a relative of the mayor. I told him to apply for the job and I would give him a fair interview like anyone else that applies. If I recall correctly there were two applicants. The mayors relative and a person on my crew that had been training to move up to the open position and could step in and take over.
I did the interviews. The mayor’s relative had zero experience or knowledge pertaining to the job he applied for. Needless to say he did not get the job. As soon as I put in the written request for promotion for my crew member and it hit the then city manager’s desk I was summoned to the city manager’s office Where I was met by an angry mayor that demanded to know why I didn’t hire his relative. I told him that his relative was not qualified for the job. He strongly suggested that I give him the job anyway. I refused. I told him and the CM that I had a choice between promoting an employee that had been with us for years, trained for the job and deserved the promotion versus hiring someone with zero experience and knowledge that would take several years of training to be competent in the job. He was pissed and told me to leave and get the F out of his sight. So I left with a big smile on my face.
I think you know what list I ended up on.
Take comfort RW…you are not alone on that list…and its growing…
…why we need internal controls in Port Orange city government and external citizen monitors who insist that they be followed…hiring in this city has concerned me for a very long time…not sure how to stop that thumb on the scale deal…any thoughts?
Thanks for describing that event…very distressing…… watch your back…
This happened years ago. It’s too late to worry about watching my back. I don’t work there any more. Other council members interfering with personnel operations? PLEASE! I have another one of these little gems that I may post some time. Maybe the next time a certain apologist for the mayor pisses me off. I have 36 years of city employee stories I could tell. You never know what will come out when I open up my crusty old mind.
Oh boy, I can relate to you Mr. Woodman. But you know what the opposition says about us, “Just sour grapes because they didn’t know how to get along with administration”. I can understand that you and I tell our stories because we care about truth, history, and the poor people who still work under those conditions. In short, we are noble enough to care about humanity. It is so easy to say Hank, Woodman, “It is all about you”, and to a point it is true, but spilling our guts will not reverse our experiences, and we more than our critics know that. Humanity and history has always fared well when people like you tell it as it was. I myself don’t care if you are sour, but do not necessarily believe it. So be it, what you have to tell us, makes your doing so a noble act. A medal of honor to you.
Thank you Mr. Woodman. I can believe you. I think most of us in civil service have seen this go on too long. Thanks for sharing.
No sour grapes here. What’s done is done. I’m happy with my life. That kind of stuff isn’t worth dwelling on. It made me feel good, I did the right thing. I’m just a retired citizen That saw a lot of questionable things at the city when I worked there, Now I can talk about them. What are they going to do fire me? We can leave the sour grapes in the mayors vineyard. I appreciate your comments. Thanks
Pohllman, many of the posters and the information on this blog comes from employees that are inside the organization as well as city activists that take a daily interest in this community. When many of the employees that blog under monikers finally retire they will certainly be able to identify themselves and their sources like you have the luxury to do. In the meantime be patient and you will see that as the facts arise their prognostications will prove to be spot on, and you will be eating a plate of crow.
The difference between these people and you is that they presently live this stuff on a day to day basis and are on the front lines. With you it seems to be a hobby, or something that occasionally picks your interest so that you come out of the woodwork. When you finally come out of the woodwork you will say a few valid and what appears to be highly intelligent points, and then you will turn around and totally contradict yourself. It is sort of like the old saying with you ,”Open mouth, insert foot”.
If this blog is telling you anything right now what it is telling you is that we are on the eve of a new paradigm. This is not the time to cool things down as the Green’s, Kisela’s, Pohlmann’s, and Kennedy’s of this city would like you to do. We are on the cusp of a new paradigm which means out with the old and in with the new. We need to eliminate the corruption that has plagued the citizens of Port Orange and not enable it to regroup and metastasize for another round.We need to root out the last vestiges of the political cancer of the old regime that we are watching implode before our eyes. The things that have caused this implosion and need to go are as follows:
1. Allen Greem
2. Greg Kisela
3. Wayne Saunders
4. Hiring FCCMA retreads instead of loyal internal candidates or private sector professionals
5. Non-transparency in government
6. Back door deals
7. Special interest representative government
8. Lack of market competitiveness in procuring the best workforce infrastructure
9. Non recognition and reward of long term internal talent within the organization
10. Running off good employees and discouraging stakeholdership
11. Not establishing performance criteria and value recognition and preserving stakeholdership
12. Stella Gurnee
13. city management obfuscation of information to council.
14. City management forbidding employees to communicate to their elected officials
15. city management and mayor not allowing department heads to run their own department
16. city management alienating technical staff and blowing off their ideas and solutions to problems.
17. Hiring consultants to procure alibis and excuses for what is obvious.
18. Hiding material errors in management from elected officials and the public.
19. creating a divide and conquer work environment by management for the workforce
20. Not being accountable for or regarding capriciously the bylaws of the organization you claim to manage.
I don’t believe the arbitrations are recorded, but they are open to the public. There is nothing closed door about it.
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