LaCour/Atanasoski RIverwalk TIF Proposal: Risk Of A Non-Diverse, Single Point of Failure
For your consideration …
Position Papers On TIF [Tax Incremental Financing] From The Right, The Left, The Middle.Especially since this proposal potentially has a [single point of failure]. And there is no diversity in the portfolio.
First, I’ll begin citing from Page 4 of the LaCour/Atanasoski TIF Proposal.
Tax Increment Implications for the LaCour/Antanasoski Project – Riverwalk Prepared by T. James Cooksey – Cooksey & Associates
This type of funding for a project carries a significant risk for municipalities and redevelopment districts since future revenues may or may not materialize to the extent necessary to service and retire the bond debt.
Since at City Council meetings there seems to be ideological expression from the [Right, Left, Middle, The Market], here are some position papers sampling the issue of TIF [Tax Incremental Funding]. Samplings from:
- CATO Intitute TIF Position Paper
- The Heartland Institute TIF Position Paper
- U.S. PIRG TIF Position Paper
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Tom [Tommy] Menocal
985 Countryside West Blvd
Port Orange, FL 32127
g: 414.367.4140 – GoogleVoice#
Can you expand on your definition of “risk” in our scenario. No bonds are being issued, so no new debt is being created. TIF is only paid out to developer after our current debt is serviced. I feel like “risk” to you really means “I don’t want condo’s” and that is really 2 different conversations. Am I missing something?
I think you did miss something. We already have bond debt. Re-read the red words that were prepared by Cooksey and try to understand them. Then read the information on the links without rose colored tunnel vision glasses. Then you will be able to see the similarities to what is going on in Port Orange. There are many examples of misuse and problems with TIF money. It came up at a council meeting that our city hasn’t even instituted a policy for use of TIF money.
Understood about the current bond debt. That’s already on the books. We already fund that out of the General Fund, which wasnt the plan going in. We already are in the hole on that deal. I get it. But him getting TIF or not doesnt change that. It actually helps because the new tax revenue generated from the condos actually pays that bond debt off for us instead of you and I paying it off as we are currently doing. It basically keeps our payment and debt levels the same and gives us new revenue. Please continue to explain, I still don’t get it. The way I read it, the future revenue materializing in the red print is speaking to a new bond that we would or wouldn’t issue within this current discussion. He isn’t asking for us to front a new bond issue. You and I are currently making the money “materialize” to pay the current bond debt by paying taxes and I don’t think anybody likes that position.
Tom–Thanks for reposting your email to the City on this blog. I referred Onlooker (I assume the same “Onlooker”) to your original email yesterday and it appears that he has read the position papers that you reference.
Onlooker–I am a 62-year-old happily married man who lives in Port Orange by choice. I love the town and its people and plan to live here until I am safely dead. I was graduated from Mainland Senior High School in 1969, am extremely overeducated, owned my own business for 26 years (aluminum construction, less than 35 employees in the best of times) and am now retired. I do not have now, nor have I ever had, any political aspirations. I do not feel that any action taken by the City of Port Orange on Lacour’s Riverwalk proposals will benefit me more or harm me less than any other resident of the City. At this stage of my life very little of my self-esteem is vested in whether you like me or not. So, now that you know more about me than you might have wished……….
Who Are You?–Some people on this blog need to remain anonymous for fear of reprisals at work or because their posts might result in awkward social or personal conflicts. Others, and I fear you are one of them, remain anonymous because they have an agenda they wish to keep hidden. I lump you in this last category (I hope wrongfully) not only because your viewpoint so closely mirrors that of past and present pro-Buddy City officials but because your whole approach to the issue is the same as theirs. That well-honed political/administrative approach is to skim over important and glaring deficiencies in the entire project and bring us to the point we are at now and at which you say:
“We have invited this elephant into our living room (but lets not look closely at the nature of the elephant or the invitation that got him here) and over a series of years he has danced us into a corner (but lets not look closely at the dance or the steps that got us here) and now he has begun to squeeze.” You say “we need to throw the elephant another bale or two of hay or he’ll never let us out of this corner.”
I was hoping that in the three articles in Tom’s email you might find something interesting enough to make you rethink, if not the whole condo project, then at least the prospect of allowing Buddy Lacour to share in TIF. Apparently not, even though I suspect that you know more about the elephant and his dance than you’ll ever let on. But to quote the mayor: “that having been said,” lets move on to the nature of the elephant.
Buddy’s Boosters are fond of including his name on the list when they trot out the other large projects in the Halifax area that are set to receive public assistance, namely Trader Joe’s, Daytona Rising and the Hard Rock. I would contend that we know a lot more about these other developers and their ability to financially bring a large project to fruition than we do about Mr Lacour. If you want a chuckle, go back to the City Council meeting where our own City Attorney admits she knows just what is on the State’s website about Mr Lacour and his partners. I’m sorry, but I know more about the guys who service my truck than that. If you want another chuckle, go back to the CRA meeting where Buddy’s engineer says he’s sure that the existing sewer capacity in the area of the condos is sufficient for their needs and then go to the last CRA meeting where he says the City will need to upgrade that capacity to the tune of $300,000 to $500,000. How can you be even minimally involved in this project for a dog’s age and not know what the existing utilities are?
The list goes backward in time and over proposals too numerous to mention but you know that already. You’ve probably noticed that I have not talked about TIF sharing and that is intentional. I know you want to pretend that this is all about feeding the elephant another bale so he’ll give us a little more room in the corner, but it’s not. It’s about how we got into the corner in the first place and how to stop the dancing and feeding the big guy.
Best,
Mike Gardner
618 Ruth St
Port Orange, FL 32127
386-527-1959
manddgardner@cfl.rr.com
Bob is that you?
Could it be Baba Looey, Quick Draw McGraw’s trusty sidekick?
Hey Mike,
Just like I mentioned to Dianne a few days ago, my only agenda is to live in a quality city. I probably have goals that focus less on finances and more on quality of life. I guess that’s why I am willing to “lose the battle but win the war” if that’s a good way to describe it regarding giving TIF or not. I want that riverfront access for me, you and everyone else in town. So many positives will come out of that. So many positives that I’m willing to ante up a little if need be. You call it continuing to feed the elephant, I look at it as getting something out of it. I don’t focus solely the finances only. They do play a role for sure, but it’s not the end all be all for me. Like you mentioned, were all gonna die one day, so I choose to try and enjoy life as much as possible. To me, the fully connected riverfront for me and my family to enjoy has a significat value.
Beyond that, 2 things…
…I try and keep everything I post positive or maybe a better way to say it, I try not to talk anyone down. But, I know, and I see on this site, how people like to attack others. I’m not up for that. I don’t think my honest opinion should make me the focus of an abusive rant by someone else. I’m just not about that. So, I don’t want my name out there.
…also, you had mentioned that I have an option to like or not like you because of your thoughts, career or positions. That’s kinda what I’m talking about. I don’t want to like or not like you because of your financial thoughts, political views, or most anything else. I try and like everyone, as long as everyone is respectful to each other.
I will tell you and Dianne again, I appreciate your effort and views. I don’t always agree with them, but you are always prepared and well thought out.
“Having said that”. Al? …Bob? Is that you? If you keep feeding the elephant more all you get out of it, is more and bigger turds. It just makes city hall smell worse. “Having said that!” I think onlooker is trying to get an Allen Green love train going…. All aboard!!! Love train…Love train We all love you Al you’re just misunderstood! We just don’t get it.
Here is a little duet featuring Allen Green and his adoring sidekick Bob Pohlmann trudging on together.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Youtube+oops+their+goes+another&qpvt=Youtube+oops+their+goes+another&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=665D4C9C707157599090665D4C9C707157599090