Port Orange Council Race Vote Results


City of Port Orange – District 1
. Votes % of votes counted
Bob Ford 2930 35.4
Sonya L. Laney 3353 40.5
Jim Meadows 1995 24.1
Totals: 8278

 
 

City of Port Orange – District 4
. Votes % of votes counted
John Anthony Junco 1525 18.8
Larry McKinney 1717 21.17
Scott Stiltner 3215 39.64
Newton (Skip) White 1654 20.39
Totals: 8111 

 

125 thoughts on “Port Orange Council Race Vote Results

  • August 26, 2014 at 6:17 pm
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    Awesome, you will keep this updated ?
    Also, correct me if wrong : if someone receives 50% tonight they are in, no runoff ?

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  • August 26, 2014 at 8:55 pm
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    Good night John Boy.

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  • August 27, 2014 at 1:04 pm
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    Regarding the Port Orange run-off election, I think this:
    There will be less people voting than the number we saw on Aug. 26, 2014.
    That might be good for Bob Ford.
    If everyone shows up, unless something dramatic happens in the meantime, I think the Nov. vote will go like the follow:
    Ford 35.4 percent of the vote
    Laney 64.6 percent of the vote
    ==
    McKinney 39.97 percent of the vote:
    Stiltner 60.03 percent of the vote
    ===
    I am not good at being a political pundit so I can be wrong. I hope I am wrong about Bob Ford. Joan and I will vote in an absentee ballot to make sure our votes count.
    We will vote for Ford and Stiltner.
    Laney to me seems to be too worried about not blaming city hall administrators for their mistakes, and not hurting the morale of city workers. If we are going to get true reform in city administration and operations Laney seems not prepared to ask for accountability. I have written before that I think Laney confuses accountability with harassment. Ford stands for accountability and he has stated that not in all cases does that mean harsh punishment. If you want accountability with compassion I would vote for Ford.
    If you like Mayor Green and his supporters, who are in my estimation financial special interests groups, you probably would want to vote for Laney. Laney has said that she is not “up the mayor’s butt” but take a look at the Mayor’s financial contribution to Laney’s campaign run.
    Sitltner I know and I think a lot of people know. McKinney I have never seen before he showed up for the Chamber of Commerce Candidate’s forum. To me the impression I get is that Stiltner is down to earth and is one of us, and make no mistake about, this city election is about ordinary citizens vs. the elite, special financial groups. I may be doing McKinney an injustice, but sorry, I can only judge him by his appearance in the candidate’s forum, because I know little about him and have only seen him speak once. I think he is slick. That may not be your perspective of him, and I am open to new information to come to me but I feel very uncertain about McKinney. I do not know really where he stands in regards to financial special interests running Port Orange. You can tell me that I am wrong, but after the uproar I have seen about Ted Noftall’s abrasiveness and inquiries, I have seen the financial special interests come out of the woodwork to plead to stop finding all the mistakes about city operations because it is damaging their image of Port Orange. I do not know where McKinney stands on this” them against us “impression I have. Stiltner has asked for a citizens’ referendum on giving tax money incentive to a developer for the Riverwalk project. Said developer owns and adamantly reserves his right to keep the prime riverfront land to himself and let the public have a split up park, the north end and the south end, all surrounding the developer’s three 17 story condos right on the river and in the middle of the park.
    The developer held a shotgun to the city councils’ heads and no one followed up on giving the citizens a choice in the manner. And so Joan and I vote for Scott Stiltner.
    Please understand that these are my opinions and you are welcome to reply and comment and contradict my perspective on whom to vote for.
    I could be wrong —- hank

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    • August 27, 2014 at 1:47 pm
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      Hank, who knows who’s right or wrong, but we all have to make a choice and go with it. I think it’s easy to say all candidates want city hall to be more accountable and run a tighter ship, so in my mind, the issue of not repeating the financial mistakes of the past is a wash. None of us want to waste money.
      For me, it boils down to 2 issues…
      …getting Riverwalk out of the ground and
      …keeping our police and fire strong operations while not bankrupting our city
      Thus, I go opposite of you and support Laney and McKinney.
      Chalk it up to your house and my house canceling out each others votes.

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      • August 28, 2014 at 8:43 pm
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        Onlooker I hear you and understand what you are saying. To appreciate your thoughts I would have to assume you are happy with the rate of reform in city administration and the fixing of mistakes. I am not. I am concerned that control has not been instituted in city government because mistakes are still being found, as of 3 weeks ago.
        You are interested in having a Riverwalk Park. I too was at the start, when the cra members said they wanted no business over 5 stories high. And then, what happened? I do not care for a park split in two punctuated by three 17 story condos. I saw that done by the State in a New York State Park within New York City up near Harlem. The Roberto Clemente State park, surrounded by a housing project. The kids from the apartments came down and took over the State Park and you took your life in your hands to play handball there or walk through the park. These condos are going to go for $375,000 and the risk is if they do not succeed in a questionable market, how will they look when the present investors sell them to someone else?
        If those condos are built, and I am still alive, as a matter of principle I will not step into that park nor patronize any of the businesses. The owner of that river boat restaurant is John Evans, President of Family Days. That does not mean much unless you worry about who runs this town and if special interests get more attention than do the public. Let us make no mistake, this will not be a public park. It will be a park like estate for the $375,000 condos, and if the city can’t mow the grass and keep it nice you can bet that those condos investors will be calling up Allen Green to get his grass cut. And you know what? It will be cut and manicured like no other city property in Port Orange.
        That is my perspective. I could be wrong. — hank springer

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        • August 28, 2014 at 9:19 pm
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          I guess that’s were it falls, I am good with 17 story condos and never had an issue when it went from 5 to 17 stories, I don’t think a mass number of kids will live in the condos and flood the park at the risk of our safety, I don’t look at it like a split park, I will frequent the area when built, and I don’t have an issue with who owns the boat. Like I’ve said before, I’m much more simple than you, you think and l look into issues much deeper than I do. I say life is to short to get to deep!

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          • September 2, 2014 at 3:17 pm
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            Go Jaguars, Go Golden Corral Buffet lunch breaks!

  • August 27, 2014 at 2:06 pm
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    Hank I like your Observations and I have a question that you might have answered and maybe I missed it. Why do you think that Bob Ford did so poorly in this Primary? Do you think that it might be because he is linked (like it or not) to the Citizen Activism that has spread through Port Orange? Are people looking at him and associating him with Ted and others? Please don’t get me wrong I am not criticizing I am asking a serious question! You seem to have a grasp of what people are thinking and you ask the right questions so I would like to read what you think. If anyone else feels like they have an answer please feel free to chime in…

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    • August 28, 2014 at 1:19 pm
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      I agree with you concerned citizen. I am so tired of Mayor Green speaking so cautiously and saying nothing. On tv “well, that’s only part of the problem” and he does not tell us what the rest of the story is. And in a city council meeting like you wrote he says the facts are wrong but does not give us the true facts. I am sick of the wizard of oz talking in riddles. I can’t wait for him to go.

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    • August 28, 2014 at 1:25 pm
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      Mr. Question I started to reply and lost my text somewhere in cyber space. I will reply later today or tonight. You know how to coax me to editorialize and I like it and love to express my opinion. That being said, you ask a question which I think the answer to is at the heart of the issues in this next run off election. So I am going to prepare what I hope will be a valuable essay about where we are in these issues, which are so important in this election. Thank you for asking. That being said – I’ll bet back to you. I’ll give you a teaser to encourage you to look forward to my essay. The chamber of commerce is good at networking behind the scenes. — hank springer

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    • August 31, 2014 at 9:51 am
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      Mr. Question I wanted to reply in my usual lengthy way but am busy with illness in the family. In short, I think Ford came out poorly in the election because the chamber of commerce networked behind the scenes to get out pro Green and anti Ford votes. Perhaps Ford did not reach the silent majority in Port Orange who do not even know about the lack of internal controls, accountability, and loss of millions of dollars. In regards to Burnette vs. Noftall, Burnette threw is political future in with Green and the special financial interests in Port Orange as represented through the chamber of commerce. Unless Ford and Noftall reach the silent majority in Port Orange Burnette will be your new mayor after Green leaves (if he ever really leaves) and that speculation is based on the fact that Green’s son Lance Green will not run this city.
      I had heard that Dorothy Hukill was told many years ago that she could not get on the city counil unless she ran it passed Jim Ward. She did not go through the old boy network and I think she was resented for it. When Hukill left for the state legislature Green became mayor and went full throttle on programs he did not bring forth when Hukill was Mayor and he a city councilman. I was at the city council meeting where Hukill said good by from the audience and Green took over as Mayor and announced all the projects for the coming year that he wanted to advance but did not when Hukill was Mayor. So much for putting the public first, and political interests second.

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  • August 27, 2014 at 3:30 pm
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    Big question now is who will endorse the remaining candidates ? Who will White, Junco, Meadows throw their support to publicly ?
    McKinney ? He is a dark horse here and charging to the front. I doubt Mr Stiltner has any real worries. Where did McKinney’s votes all come from . That one sole public appearance ? He was well spoken but we don’t know much about this guy.
    Ford vs. Laney will be a title fight worth watching.

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    • August 27, 2014 at 4:10 pm
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      I say most of Junco’s votes go to McKinney and Whites votes may swing towards Stiltner. While McKinney gets my vote, I am afraid I may be on the losing end of that one. The tight one will certainly be Laney v Ford. I have no idea who takes most of Meadows votes. I perceive him to have been more like Laney on Riverwalk issue so that may benefit her. Which will be tough for Ford to overcome, especially with her strong showing in the primary. But, all of that only matters if the voters turn out for each side.

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      • August 27, 2014 at 9:19 pm
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        I’m with you onlooker on your choice for candidates, Laney and McKinney are better for Port Orange. I look at it this way, 65% of the voters went against Ford, and 60% voted against Stiltner. I believe Stiltner and his union supporters are shocked he didn’t win on Tuesday, thinking he had a lock on winning 50% of the vote. Right now Laney has a good chance and ran a great, professional campaign. She picks up Meadows voters. Stiltner looks strong but voters are starting to see the union issue as being a big problem. McKinney is gaining some name recognition and apparently has people who believe in him. His recent performance at the forum gained him supporters. I think McKinney picks up a lot of Junco and Whites support.
        Keep in mind this is only my opinion. Others will have a completely different take on the primary election. Look forward to commenting on my observations and opinions as we move closer to November.
        Bob Pohlmann

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        • August 28, 2014 at 7:29 am
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          Spoken like a candidate who was NOT supported by his own union. VTO went with the other guy in your race from what I remember Bob. Its clear your issues with unions is purely personal. If you noticed Stiltner didnt take any money from unions. But the others proudly accept money from developers and claim they will not be influenced by these contributors in the future. Sonya Laney didnt magically get all those votes because she reminds voters all the time that she is a CPA and is smarter and more professional then the rest of us, those were Alan Green voters coming out to attempt to defeat Bob Ford. If you think those types of relationships are better for Port Orange you are either insane or maybe just still holding a grudge because your peers decided to support the other guy when you were hoping to be re-elected.

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          • August 29, 2014 at 5:53 pm
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            Hello Mr. Retired fire fighter. Thank you for patiently awaiting my reply. I’m sure to can’t wait to hear what I have to say. First off, let me correct you on your assertions about union support.
            I am not now, nor have I been a member of a union for the last 28 years. As a school administrator I am not allowed to be represented by a union. I serve on a one year contract so in essence, I have worked for 28 consecutive one year contracts. I have been an educator for 39 years now and will finish my career with 40 years in education in June of 2016. When I was a teacher I was a union member. My wife, a teacher, is a union member.
            Back in 2012 the local teachers union decided to endorse candidate Bastain for the local election. There was no interview process involved for endorsement, just an outright endorsement, out of the blue. When I contacted the teachers union on why they endorsed my opponent without interviewing both candidates, the reply was that the Central Florida Labor Council told us we had to endorse Bastain because he was supported by the unions. That was wrong and insulting in my opinion. There was no questionnaire to fill out, there was no face to face interview with anyone. I believe anyone with common sense would say that was wrong. I would expect the IAFF to support Bastain but not an organization I am somewhat affiliated with.
            I did interview for one endorsement and that was the the Volusia Realtor Association, Bastain also interviewed for their endorsement. I received their endorsement and a check for $500. So please do not misrepresent the facts in the future.
            Now I would be happy to offer to you some facts on the benefit package I worked on to change. I have all the facts and figures and names to prove my point. I would not publish names but I could report the years of work and the monthly benefits some receive. Let me briefly explain my rub with your union. While in Port Orange the local PBA and PEA understood that to continue paying out benefits, some items had to scaled back. They cooperated, you guys did not. You guys dragged out the contract for years causing taxpayers millions. We asked for you guys not to cash out yearly sick leave, you guys did not. PBA and PEA worked with the city on that issue. So yes, on behalf of the tax payers, I resent where you are coming from.
            Finally, at the end of my time on council, after years of delay, the contract was settled and benefits reduced. But benefits were reduced in PBA, PEA, for teachers in Florida, and all over America. I wanted to be fair, but you guys resented that, and to be honest with you, some of your union members were quite arrogant about that. Not all, but some.
            Finally, as I have said many, many times, I respect your profession. Port Orange firefighters do a great job. I support the safest equipment to protect you guys when you fight fires. Let’s keep the dialogue true with the facts. Good health to you and your family.
            Bob Pohlmann

          • September 8, 2014 at 5:51 pm
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            To Bob Pohlmann,
            It appears the only misrepresentation of fact is by you, as usual. I stated that you were not supported by your own union and you weren’t. The fact that your wife is a member and you used to be a member pretty much clarifies that the teachers union is YOUR union. Sort of like how you try to say Bob Ford is a union candidate. Bob Ford was not in a union he was management for the city. To be honest he should be the perfect candidate for the anti-union movement that you seem to support now. What you don’t like about Bob Ford is that he actually looks at both sides of an issue and tries to make an informed decision, one of your weak points as a council member Bob. You shouldn’t be insulted by the teachers union Bob it was an easy decision based on your actions as a council member. You were anti-union and all they had to do was watch a council meeting and they could see for themselves. Drew was a shoe in for the endorsement because you were a terrible representative of their interests, despite being a teacher yourself….Sad.
            As for the union negotiations it was the city council and the city manager that were uncooperative not the union. As an actual retired firefighter I can tell you without a doubt that the union was the only side of the equation trying to find solutions to the pension problem. It was YOU, the MAYOR, and the city manager that dragged out negotiations for years and created an adversarial environment. The fact is it was not benefits that were the problem but rather the city’s more then 20 years of pathetic underfunding that created that liability gap.
            Here are some actual facts; The union came to the table every meeting with new win/win proposals that actually saved the city money and had firefighters paying over 8% into the pension and the city said NO. The union paid for actuarial studies to show the validity of four new ideas for pension and the city said NO. The CITY came back to the table with…REGRESSIVE PROPOSALS for 13 contract articles Ability to take classes REDUCED TO ZERO CLASSES, PAY…REDUCED… BENEFITS REDUCED….. BEREAVEMENT LEAVE REDUCED… You see Bob the firefighters were working hard at finding common ground and the CITY went regressive…THEN IT WAS THE CITY NOT THE UNION THAT WENT TO IMPASSE…… The city said it did not want to actually negotiate anymore, the city and the council wanted to strong arm the union and said we would have to accept the entire agreement of reduced pay and benefits or NOTHING!!…. So really?? You really believe that the union was uncooperative???
            Then a neutral 3rd party was brought in ( Special Magistrate) and looked at everything that took place and guess what he said….THE UNION WAS RIGHT ON EVERY ISSUE… But it was YOU and the council, now acting as the “legislative body” as if the name change would somehow change your strong arm stance, that decided that the city did not want to do anything the special magistrate decided. YOU just threw out the decision because YOU did not want to let anyone tell you how it should be….. What is funny is that you kept saying the union had so much power to drag this out but really there is no power in the union…The city can just decide to NOT listen to the Magistrate…. Amazing how you twist the facts though!!!
            And lets just get one thing straight…That contract was never settled…the City FORCED the changes on the union. Hows that for powerful…Despite LOSING the Magistrate decision…and Actually LOSING most of the augment before PERC…The city was still allowed to just force the changes on the union…. It was YOU and the rest of the Kangaroo Council and the city manager that created all of that legal action….NOT the firefighters union…
            One more fact before I go….When I say it was not benefits that caused the unfunded liability to sky rocket I say that because for over 20 yrs the firefighter paid 8% of their pay for those benefits and guess what the citys average was over those same 20 yrs……. 4% of payroll 4% BOB..They paid the very minimum they could get away with….In some years the city paid less then 1% of payroll They got a free ride for 20 years on the backs of the firefighters then when things got tough who did they blame..THE FIREFIGHTERS. You and that administration were pathetic and wrong…
            People like you twist the truth and the facts and try to make your actions seem admirable but you were wrong the whole time Bob. Your tactics are to take a moment in time, the fiscal crisis, and exploit it. You take the outliers in a group and use those numbers to make your point. You overstep the city charter and try to run departments from the council chambers and you use “right to work” advantages to strong arm employees and force changes that dont actually help either side.
            So as you say..Lets keep the dialogue true with the facts!
            Retired and tired …of your lies!

        • August 29, 2014 at 7:49 am
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          So that also means 60 percent voted against Sonya Laney and a whopping 79 percent voted against Larry McKinney.
          Scott split that vote 4 ways so statistically I think he did very well to get 40 percent.
          What was so professional about Sonya’s campaign? She took money from Mayor Green, she took money from Buddy LaCour, she never took a position on anything that I could determine. Looks like the “business as usual” candidate to me. And doesn’t her dad, Frank Flagg, work for the city at a really nice rate of pay? She looks pretty dialed in to me.
          Also looks to me like neither she nor Larry McKinney is a property owner. He is apparently a renter in Cypress Head. And I cannot find her name on the Volusia county property appraiser’s website any where.
          So what’s up with that? You can find my name on there. Twice.
          SO….not sure what your point is here Bob.
          I know you will enlighten me on your reasoning.
          One more question..why is a former assistant principal who must have a state pension so aligned with business and developers and Chamber of Commerce types? Also weren’t you on council when the unfunded pension mess evolved. Just trying to understand your mind set here Bob?
          Best,
          Dianne Templeton Gardner

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          • August 31, 2014 at 10:05 am
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            To Bob Pohlmann and Dianne Gardner from hank springer.
            Let’s us face the awful truth that to be elected you need support from large groups like unions or special financial interest groups like those that network with the chamber of commerce. I think Bob Ford refused money from union groups, am I correct? Unfortunately this kind of financial special interest run politics, nationally and locally. I am getting nudged to believe that I should support some political party which wants to keep my taxes down. Mayor Green did you read that? Oh I forgot, you don’t read blogs but your lackeys tell you what are on them. Mayor Green I told you in a phone conversation that you keep your cards close to your vests. Your cards must be pretty soiled by now.
            Maybe I should join the Tea Party. I have watched the special financial interest groups come out of the woodwork to keep Port Orange as they liked it in the past, and I see that in Port Orange is us against them. No doubt about it. Who runs Port Orange? Certainly not the citizens. Should I join the Tea Party. At this time I am a NPA

        • August 29, 2014 at 7:53 am
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          Dear Bob,
          Responded to this farther down.
          Looking for some dialogue here.
          Thanks.
          Dianne Templeton Gardner

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        • August 31, 2014 at 1:35 am
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          Here is a message to you from Abraham Lincoln.
          It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

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  • August 27, 2014 at 5:05 pm
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    I was wondering why McKinney left as the head of the Daytona Regional Chamber of Commerce? I know there was a settlement and he faced criticism from several board members over insider issues. Hope someone knows more…

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    • August 28, 2014 at 7:36 am
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      He left abruptly the week before bike week in March 2013.
      Looks like he was going to be forced out but quit.
      I would like him to expound on this if he wants my vote.
      His opposing candidate Mr Stiltner did 22 solid years with POPD.

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      • August 29, 2014 at 8:15 am
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        I agree ..both Lieutenant Stiltner and Chief Ford gave many years in serving our community and keeping us safe. Dedicated cops and excellent family men too. Port Orange has a premier police department today because of innovations that occurred under Chief Bob Ford.
        I am grateful to them both.
        They spent time in front of the task. That resonates with me. We are a better community because of their efforts.
        Dianne

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  • August 27, 2014 at 7:17 pm
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    These Council meetings are getting worse and worse – very unprofessional. I wonder what the new Interim CM first impression is.
    Mayor Green is asked – “what does legal review mean” ? His answer was ” anything we want it to” – what an a**hole he is. Totally unprofessional and uncalled for reply.
    Ted gets up to the podium and asks clear cut articulate questions and the Mayor replies he doesn’t know, can anyone help him with an answer. He is totally clueless.
    He later admonishes Council candidates saying “they need to get their facts straight”
    Will someone PLEASE reign this feeble old man in ?

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    • August 28, 2014 at 12:37 pm
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      I agree with you concerned citizen. I am so tired of Mayor Green speaking so cautiously and saying nothing. On tv “well, that’s only part of the problem” and he does not tell us what the rest of the story is. And in a city council meeting like you wrote he says the facts are wrong but does not give us the true facts. I am sick of the wizard of oz talking in riddles. I can’t wait for him to go.

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  • August 27, 2014 at 8:17 pm
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    Onlooker – sell me on McKinney. I don’t know enough about the guy but am impressed merely from the Chamber Q&A. Samantha – great info, did not know that.
    To Mr / Ms Question – I think Ford fared poorly just by being an INCUMBENT
    As of now, I am going – Stiltner and Laney but am open to persuasion and may change.

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    • August 27, 2014 at 8:46 pm
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      To be honest, my focus is narrow on the candidates. A lot of council votes go 5-0 in favor of approval. So, that means I focus on issues that are significant to the city. Riverwalk , to me, is a project that has to move forward now. McKinney has come out as a supporter of stimulating the Riverwalk by using a portion of the newly generated taxes to support the development. That lines up with my thinking. I fear the cost to us taxpayers if we don’t get Riverwalk going.
      Before I get critized on giving TIF money to Buddy, I ask anyone that disagrees to clearly explain what is the risk to the city by committing a percentage of newly generated tax money. I’ve yet to here anything more than its not good to do. To be clear, I’m looking for specific ways the city would be at risk.

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      • August 28, 2014 at 4:45 pm
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        At risk – I don’t know. But in the minds of many, the area in question folks do want developed, but do NOT want to see high rise condos placed there.
        That is Mr. LaCour’s focus and profit motivation. I tend to agree – lets develop the Riverwalk, parks, shops, restaurants, boat docks, marina etc but not condos.

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        • August 28, 2014 at 7:56 pm
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          Yes, that’s it, folks that are “against giving TIF” are really “against condos”. Problems are…
          …everybody paid to much for the property and density has to be developed to turn a profit
          …zoning for 17 story condos are in place already
          …Buddy owns the property and has the right to do it, it’s America.
          And, in my mind, no risk to the city because Buddy is asking for reimbursement of revenue his project creates, he’s not asking for the city to front the money and hope to get it paid back.

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      • August 28, 2014 at 8:24 pm
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        To onlooker I do not look upon giving tax money to a developer as a risk, but find it not necessary. To build a city park, what risk should a city be forced into?. To build condos, the developer and investors take all the risks. Isn’t that the way it goes? We would like to have a park, but some investors have decided that this CRA thing means that condos will be helpful to build up the Ridgewood Corridor. I don’t think we need a cra to build a park, and the developer can go wherever he wants to build condos. Why does it have to be in our park? It seems to me that this cra idea was a convenient way for the developer to build the condos using tax money. I wanted a park without condos. Ice Cream shops, restaurants, rides for kids, splash pool for kids, boating and a marina on the river, ice or roller skating ring, little pond for model sailing boats, some bocci ball courts, horse shoes, bad mitton, picnic tables, trees, grass, flowers, shrubs, walking trails. And for this we had to build three 17 story condos for a profit to a developer? Come on now. Is this sensible? If there is any risk to this adventure the developer and his investors should take them. I think a city should provide services but not take risks. Investors take risks. Oh yes, I forgot.

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        • August 28, 2014 at 8:34 pm
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          You identified a good point Hank. Folks (you) don’t always understand things. Buddy’s not putting condos in “our city park”. He owns most of the dirt in the old Sweetwater restaurant block. Our city park is to the north. If we want a park connection thru his block, we need to work with him to achieve his goals and the cities goals. Only other choice is for us to buy his dirt by talking on more debt and taking all that property off the tax rolls. You up for that?

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  • August 27, 2014 at 8:23 pm
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    It appears the new CM set Council straight on this. He explained that customarily when a citizen question is not answered that staff would provide an answer at the next scheduled Council meeting. We will see how that progresses. Poor Ted has asked the same questions repeatedly with no replies in the past for years. I look at this as a positive gesture moving forward. It would sure make everyone feel better and develop some mutual respect. As long as we are reasonable and not attacking each other.

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    • August 28, 2014 at 12:32 pm
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      Is that what the interim cm said? At the next meeting? I didn’t hear “at the next meeting”.

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      • August 28, 2014 at 12:53 pm
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        What no one failed to ask the interim city manager in qualification of his recommendation on response time for FOI’s is why would every FOI need a month or better to be researched prior to a response and why would the response have to wait until a council meeting. Some information requests may be quite complex and require a significant amount of time to be researched and addressed adequately but many information requests are relatively simple and should be responded to expediently. Not all requests are created equal so you do not treat them generically unless you either lack critical thinking ability or you intentionally are trying to retard the process of open and transparent governance. I will cut the new interim city manager a little slack because that was his first night, but for someone that we are paying a $3,000 a week salary from the start who is supposed to have as much experience as has been advertised that statement at council did not demonstrate a particularly high level of critical thinking, insight, or foresight. Hopefully his inputs will get better as he gains more experience.

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        • August 28, 2014 at 1:14 pm
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          You guys are at it again.

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          • August 28, 2014 at 1:50 pm
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            Go Jaguars!

        • August 28, 2014 at 3:13 pm
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          Wow, proving the point that some folks can never be pleased? Makes me realize that the “good debate” this site mostly provides may not as productive as believed. Sounds like its just a place for some folks to complain for the sake of complaining.

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  • August 27, 2014 at 10:26 pm
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    Thought it would be Junco and Stiltner in one run off and Laney and Ford in the other. Not enough people voting in Port Orange for anyone to win a race with 3 and 4 candidates. Anyone know what McKinney’s background and motive is for running? No one seems to know much about him.

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    • August 28, 2014 at 4:04 pm
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      Junco had the lowest vote count. He is a very nice guy who serves his community well in many aspects. He just does not posses the demeanor and attitude one wants in a Council member. ie: “too nice” and a bit wishy washy.

      Reply
  • August 28, 2014 at 3:42 am
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    Alright folk with no common sense or maybe up to date in life and the way voting flies……most people have no clue what they are voting for. How many of you people filled in a bubble just because of a name or the SEX of the individual. There is Mr. Ford’s worst political problem. A woman on the ballot. She landed a 1000 votes…. I swear on my favorite cabbage palm’s life …..simply because she is a woman. In my opinion she is a beautiful, intelligent woman…..yet has NO PLACE ON A COUNCIL SEAT!! She claims to see things with an open view that has the curtains closed….JUST SAYIN;)

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    • August 28, 2014 at 8:49 am
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      Wow, strong opinion PO STALKER. One could also say an incumbent may get a certain amount of votes from an uneducated voter?
      I guess when it’s all said and done, none of these theories matter, only the votes do.
      Also, what disqualifies a smart women from being on council? Would be very interested in your answer.

      Reply
  • August 28, 2014 at 2:06 pm
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    The only evidence that Sonya is a smart woman is her telling us continually that she is a CPA
    If she has announced even one position on anything I must have missed it.

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    • August 28, 2014 at 3:59 pm
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      Ford has stated he wants to publicly debate her.
      I look really foreword to this taking place. It will indeed help me make my mind up. If they have a true debate with no fluff and the gloves off we will either see where they really stand or if they are fence straddlers afraid to commit.
      Ford still has INCUMBENT attached to his name and that means he needs to shoulder some of the litany of issues we have now.
      I just wish Burnette hadn’t got rubber stamped back into office and had a viable opponent.

      Reply
  • August 28, 2014 at 10:21 pm
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    I have no idea where she stands on the issues. Her commentary are vague and non revealing. All i know is she disagrees with me but not sure what. About all she says is that she is a CPA which is fine . I am a Ph.D but I don’t understand what that matters….

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    • August 28, 2014 at 10:23 pm
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      Sorry for the spelling errors, hit submit before I could edit.

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    • August 28, 2014 at 10:49 pm
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      Well Mr Ford, if you have extended the offer to debate and discuss the issues in a public forum and she declines that makes my decision easier. If she talks in circles without specifics that too is telling. My problem is how and why did the city get in the position it’s in under your watch in the past four years ? As a voter, I want to hold you accountable and the only way I can, is at the polls in November.
      I am also looking for someone to step up and reign in the Mayor and hold him accountable as well. Some peer pressure, someone to publicly call him out in reference to his treatment of citizens at meetings. Part of me thinks there is strength in numbers and the trio of Bastian, Stiltner and Ford could be a driving force for the future.

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      • August 29, 2014 at 12:13 am
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        To concerned citizen. I am sure Ford will answer you and I don’t mean to speak for him, but if you don’t already know I am an avid supporter of Bob Ford.
        You are very correct to hold Ford and the other 4 council members accountable for where they are lacking. I will say this for Ford, he has always been asking for internal controls and accountability to be instituted. This he has done often while others on the city council remain somewhat mute. And about one month before Kisela decided to resign Ford had asked the other city council members at a city council meeting if they were happy with little change in city administration and asked them if they had any ideas to stop all the mistakes that have been coming out. Kennedy responded “I know what you are getting at” but ….. To me I thought I was hearing Ford’s first step towards asking Kisela to step down because he was not putting in real reforms fast enough. I could be wrong, but in a polite way I think Ford was asking for the city council members to start considering Kisela’s work performance. Ford can correct me if I am wrong, but I see his putting forth the proposition that perhaps Kisela cannot get us what we want in city administration. The way I see it, that was bold.
        And if you remember, LaCour when he put the shotgun to the heads of the city council members to give him $5 million dollars or he would walk away from the Riverwalk project he mentioned the hostile environment coming from Ford. Mr. concerned citizen you may be in favor of giving 5 million dollars to LaCour to help him build three 17 story condos but I am not.
        But on the other hand, Ford has said that there will be a Riverwalk Park and the cra and city council are moving head on the project. I differ with Ford about the need for a park in the terms that Lacour has presented to us.
        Ford is only one member of 5 on the city council and with Burnette, the Mayor and Kennedy, Ford’s desires are not always met by the others.
        I also think that it was reasonable to allow Kisela some time to place himself into many horrible problems and see what he could do about them. What did that take, about 2 years of Ford’s term? But I think I saw Ford approach the problem of reform with Kisela when Ford publicly asked the city council members what they thought the city council should do with the lack of improvement in city administration.
        Since Parker has left, the number of mistakes that have been revealed has taken first priority interest of the city council and Ford was always involved in searching for the why and how we correct them and make sure they don’t happen again. And at the same time, allowing Kisela time to show us all what he could do as a city manager. I am saying for a good part of Ford’s term we were in a hopeful transition stage to a better administration. I think we can only judge how a city council member at least tried in circumstances like those. When I compare the issues Ford had brought up to the issue other city council people did not bring up, I come out with the conclusion that among them all, Ford has the best interest of the public in mind.
        In my perspective, in the light of the chamber of commerce networking to get all those financial interest people to show up and clamor for a return to the good old days, both Ford and Noftall were on their mind.
        Noftall may be criticized for his methods, but I don’t see any reason to criticize Ford for his methods. He remained dignified, stuck to his point of accountability, and insistence on internal controls be put in place, especially in finance. On the other hand Laney confuses accountability with harassment and sounded at one point that she was blaming Ford for the appearance of city workers not wanting to tell administration what mistakes were out in the field because they were afraid of losing their jobs. Who do you think she was thinking about who would want people to lose their jobs when as she said those city workers had mortgages to pay off. It had to mistakenly be Ford, and no one else on the city council. And that very same night, Ford responded by stating that harsh punishment does not always have to be handed out, and asked the people to consider how reaction to mistakes were handled as gently as possible. I would say that those who stole vacation time, and then ask for financial reimbursement for vacation time not used were treated very leniently. The director of that malfeasance had to resign and Ford did not cry out for legal prosecution and allowed Roger to promise to pay back the money. I think the employees involved in that vacation time swindle were also allowed to pay back money. But Ford did not ask for the guillotine. Maybe he should have.
        That is how I see it. I couldn’t resist getting into this topic, because I think it is unfair to blame some of the bad things that happened when Ford was only one of 5 plus a city manager during that time. I at least see that Ford was outspoken on the problems, looked and asked for remedies, while advocating accountability, but I would say with compassion. I see no lack of compassion in Bob Ford.
        If people confuse accountability with harassment, and Ford with Noftall, I think they are wrong.
        Bob Ford if I what I think is wrong, please let me know. And you too Mr. concerned citizen. — Hank springer

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      • August 29, 2014 at 3:27 am
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        There is no other way to hold this mayor accountable. Want change in city government..vote for Scott Stiltner and re-elect Bob Ford. We must have that 3rd vote from Scott to reverse the mayor’s current reliable 3/2 vote. Bob and Drew cannot do it alone. God knows they have tried.
        Sonya Laney will be another vote for Mayor Green as will Larry McKinney. She is bought and paid for. Mckinney has made his pro Buddy stance very clear.
        Plan on it. The Green machine. The vote then will be 4/1…Mayor’s agenda really entrenched.
        So which is it Port Orange?

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      • August 30, 2014 at 7:32 am
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        I believe true change will occur if Stiltner gets on council and Ford stays in place.
        The 3/2 vote the mayor currently enjoys will then go the other way. New vote will be: Stiltner/Bastian/Ford. A turn of events the mayor is really trying to stop….hence his strong support of Sonya Laney. If she wins and Scott wins. No change. Mayor still in control. Seems reasonable to assume that if Sonya Laney has received money from Mayor Green for her campaign that he will expect her to vote with him should she be elected. Call me a cynic. A vote for Sonya Laney to me seems to be a vote for the status quo. Same deal with Larry McKinney. Status quo guy big time. Larry as much as told me and a couple of friends one day that the average voter was just not really very smart enough to grasp complex city issues and that we should let professional city managers do our thinking for us. That their judgment was much better. That was a real wake up moment for me with regard to Larry McKinney. Our city’s recent experience with FCCMA/ICMA “professionals” really undercuts that thinking. At least for me. Did not sound like an inclusive mind set for those of us who believe citizens should participate in government and provide scrutiny. Just trust your government, Dianne. Uh…..I think not.
        To my way of thinking Bob Ford has repeatedly taken uncomfortable positions against the mayor, the city manager and even occasionally the city attorney and certainly the dependable vote of Green/Burnette/Kennedy. He has not “made nice”. He has harped incessantly on internal controls. Accountability. Due diligence. Going to rollback. Better contract writing by our legal department. He does not like zoning by negotiation. One of my huge issues. He voted against the TIF giveaway to Buddy LaCour. Unfair to the taxpayer, unfair to other developers in all the CRAs. That we have to do better as a city in stopping these crazy errors like the $411K overspend. At least that is what I heard. Maybe my hearing is selective. But that is my perception. Granted…..I liked the man initially for what he did to help my neighborhood, when we seemed to have no options. But as I began to watch him on council and really listen to what he said and watch how he voted, my feeling was that this is a guy who is watching out for the taxpayer and for people like me. Consistent in his voting patterns. And he seems to have a very good grasp of the issues. And he is always civil.
        Of course…as we all know…I am now an avid Dr. Bob Ford supporter. But I came to that position because I observed his voting choices over a long period of time. He voted the way I would have voted. Is that not the best way to judge a candidate?

        Reply
  • August 29, 2014 at 3:47 am
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    I would like to see every candidate post their specific positions to this blog..not broad generalities or statements about their credentials..tell me how you will vote on the issues that we can reasonably anticipate coming before this council in coming months.
    How about our informed bloggers creating a possible list? How about candidates responding in a clear concise unequivocal manner?
    I believe my candidates of Stiltner and Ford will gladly do that. I challenge Mrs. Laney and Mr. McKinney to do the same.
    Let’s inform the electorate and have some sensible debate. Port Orange deserves that. I am working on my list now.
    Let’s keep it to the issues please.
    Thanks guys!
    Dianne Templeton Gardner

    Reply
  • August 29, 2014 at 7:50 am
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    Lord knows, Dennis Kennedy has added virtually nothing during his tenure as a Councilman.
    He too talks in circles, votes with the Mayor for the most part and has shown no true leadership qualities. Again, a “nice guy” and civic minded (see John Junco) but a poor choice for elected office.

    Reply
  • August 29, 2014 at 8:45 am
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    Mrs Gardner:
    What is your take and how do you condone Mr Ford’s past issues as Police Chief ? Does time heal all wounds ? As you are aware, he had a spate of personnel issues with his troops (particularly female officers) that were well documented. In fact, there were several lawsuits brought forth.
    Mr Ford downplays this by admitting same (to his credit) but states it cost the city nothing as their insurance carrier paid off on the lawsuits. That does not mitigate the facts that it occurred.
    I dare say if this occurred recently, you might crucify him.
    I am playing devils advocate here. I lean toward Bob Ford but he will need to step up the campaign to win in November election. This became apparent this past Tuesday.

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    • August 29, 2014 at 9:55 am
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      Who are you “Concerned Citizen”?….I will not respond to anonymous surrogates on this blog..let your affiliations be known.
      Mine are known as is my name.
      I find this to be a cowardly, inaccurate and scurrilous attack on Dr. Ford and I will not respond unless you make yourself known.
      Who are you?
      Dianne Templeton Gardner

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      • August 29, 2014 at 10:40 am
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        Sorry you feel that way. I do not view it as an “attack” . I am merely weighing out the candidates and their merits and baggage. As I stated, I am inclined to support Mr Ford.
        If indeed I have stated something that is incorrect or slanderous, by all means set me straight. It seems your skin is not very thick ma’am. Sorry if you feel offended and can’t debate about a candidate.
        Also, I am no Johnny come lately and am a long time Port Orange resident and taxpayer as you are.
        My post was NOT a cowardly, inaccurate response, but we will agree to disagree on that. Enjoy your posts but I must have struck a nerve.

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        • August 29, 2014 at 11:25 am
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          Ok..some background on Dianne…..I do not like anonymous posters unless that person has some reason to fear for their job with the city or if they work somewhere where their comments could put their jobs in jeopardy. I get that. You may very well fall into that category.
          So if my response was over the top, please forgive me. It’s got little to do with Bob Ford. Much more to do with my history. .And I typically do not respond to anonymous posters. So that is the nerve you hit. Nothing about this issue with Bob.
          Having said that, I would like to add, I do believe your statements are inaccurate. Or maybe stated poorly.
          I have noticed that you seem to be supportive of Bob Ford from time to time…..my hope would be that you would meet with him and explore this issue in depth. My husband and I were the target of frivolous lawsuits when we were in business. And we settled too because the legal costs will break you even though you or your company are 100% innocent of the charges. And the marginal types who bring these lawsuits know that. It’s a game. Its never their money that’s on the table. It’s someone else’s. So I know whereof I speak. Also when I was a social worker, I saw male and female colleagues careers ruined or damaged by allegations made by girls or women……and sometimes men….and sadly if was often women….vague allegations..hard to defend against……..and it was always about getting a settlement…it was about money….and the agency always settled….always ….similar scenario…..so again….have lots of history with that…..and by the way, I am a strong feminist. So is Dr. Marilyn Ford. A very bright principled woman.
          I personally believe anyone who gets to know Bob Ford and Marilyn will become friends and fans. I have not met an easier to talk to human being than Bob Ford. He is a responsive guy. He and I do not agree on all issues. But he is in no way dogmatic and he will answer any question honestly. And tell you his rationale. Bob is a thinker. Hence my suggestion to meet with him. He is not opaque in his relationships in any way. And he can disagree without being disagreeable. Not my strongest suit.
          Having said all that, am I defensive of people I care about and trust without reservation? Absolutely. And Bob helped me and my neighborhood when I needed help. In a manner that was fair to both sides. And that “other side” and I have now become friends. So I understand the value of reasoning with someone you do not initially agree with.
          Would you be willing to call me?
          I can be reached at 386-527-1641. I can keep my mouth shut about identities.
          I want to talk to everyone. We need more communication in this city. Not less.
          Best,
          Dianne Templeton Gardner
          618 Ruth Street
          Port Orange, Florida 32127
          dtgardner@cfrl.rr.com
          PS: Am I thin skinned? Absolutely…Just ask Mike… 🙂

          Reply
          • August 29, 2014 at 12:34 pm
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            I knew you couldn’t resist responding. You compromised your own principles.
            My statements are not inaccurate and you are entitled to your opinion that you feel they were poorly stated. You are narrow minded in that you are a very staunch Ford supporter. Again, I take no issue with that. I will not label myself as a full fledged Ford supporter yet he will get my vote as of today.
            Yes, I will forgive your attack and hope you realize that we all have the right to our opinions. You seem to get agitated quite easily Mrs. Gardner. Take a deep breath, relax and realize there are others with varying opinions and observations.
            I have no desire to engage you in a telephone conversation but thank you for the offer.
            By the way, I totally agreed with your views and issues concerning the boat business and what transpired in your neighborhood. I feel that Mr. Wiles is just another one of the characters on the Mayor”s buddy list.

  • August 29, 2014 at 10:49 am
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    Dianne,
    I am going to take a different tact from yours with ” Concerned Citizen” in keeping with my belief that it is the message that is important and worthy of debate — irrespective of the identity of the messenger.
    With that said did “concerned citizen” choose to expound on a message beyond 20 year old allegations that were settled out of court, meaning nothing was ever examined, much less proved, THUS leaving us with a message consisting of nothing more than innuendo. The answer is that he did not, AND for that to make sense he must be trying to appeal to a very low information voter indeed.
    I would hope “concerned citizen”, the other bloggers, and especially our 4 candidates will sharpen their arguments and positions on current and future issues — And give Port Orange voters some real choices.

    Reply
    • August 29, 2014 at 11:00 am
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      I’m good with that to an extent Ted.
      And I hope that candidate Ford is prepared to answer to this to alleviate any questions. He is facing an uphill battle right now based on the primary vote. As you know, Ms. Laney has pulled all the old files and intends to make this a target and has it high up on her radar.
      To compare, District four candidate Stiltner had a 22 year unblemished law enforcement career.
      It’s all good – and I consider myself to be be a very informed voter and gaining more info via this
      blog.

      Reply
  • August 29, 2014 at 11:42 am
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    Answer to what – the allegations of disgruntled employees from 20 years ago who did not have the courage of their convictions to have their day in court.
    Candidate Laney will not touch this with a 10ft pole because to do so would be to invite Ford to peer into her background. Her supporters as you are rapidly proving to be are a different matter however.
    Hope you will be as equally sanguine in encouraging Laney to answer years old innuendo if Ford supporters writing under pseud-oms follow your lead.
    I would hope that does not happen. I feel confident that there will be plenty of blood and gore to go around sticking to the issues before us as a City.
    If as you say “you are a very informed voter and gaining more info via this blog” then you sure are doing a great job of disguising that fact in this exchange.

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  • August 29, 2014 at 12:20 pm
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    Well hell yeah, I would encourage him to delve into her background. She has done her due diligence and brought it out in a cowardly manner via former Mayor Judy Anderson.
    I prefer to know up front rather than when someone is in office.
    With that said, it can go to far. If a candidate had a bankruptcy for example, I would never cast a vote for them as they would be fiscally irresponsible in my opinion. Areas of concern would be financial, lawsuits etc.
    Although I am a Stiltner supporter, I am curious as to McKinney’s departure and terms from the Daytona Beach Chamber. This is possibly relevant to his candidacy.
    Also we disagree on those former employees and their courage to have their day in court. There were out of court settlements and they were compensated. If there was no merit to their claims at the time, then why were they paid off from the city’s insurance carrier ? A BS nuisance claim and it’s easier to pay off 60k and tell them to get lost ?

    Reply
  • August 29, 2014 at 3:37 pm
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    To concerned citizen from Hank Springer.
    I do not know the details about the feminine law suit brought against the city of Port Orange regarding Chief Ford’s Police Administration.
    I do know the details of the senate hearing on nomination for Clarence Thomas as Supreme Court Justice. Some people today think that Anita Hill claimed that Mr. Thomas was suggesting a sexual affair with Anita. She under oath denied that was the case.
    So the details were, Clarence made reference to hair on his Coke soda can and retold a porn movie to Anita, which he had seen . This was all documented under oath. The conclusion was and verified by Anita that Clarence then left Anita alone and did not make any more inappropriate remarks to her. Do I think Clarence was hitting on Anita and trying to score, I do. Did he harass her for not responding to his inappropriate remarks – no. And so, could he do a good job as a Supreme Court Justice – YES.
    In the case of Bob Ford I must admit that if I were to be convinced that Ford had in some way discriminated against female employees it would not diminished my respect for the way he has stood up as city council man for the average tax payer.
    The supporters of Bill Clinton irritated me to no end during the Monica Lewinsky no sex impeachment of Bill Clinton. Right up to and after the semen stains were introduced as evidence in an impeachment procedure Clinton his supporters still attacked all those who wanted the truth of the incident revealed as sex perverts looking to be amused by trial testimony.
    And so I say, the support for not having sex with Monica Lewinsky hurt Bill Clinton but nevertheless he functioned as a pretty good president keeping the economy good, and using some tough love principles towards our social welfare issues.
    If you whole heartedly support feminine issues than Thomas, Clinton and Ford would not be your candidate. By the way the NOW association supported Clinton but did not support Thomas. So much for feminine issues.
    Ford is not applying for an administrative position with female employees. Ford is applying to be a city legislator.
    The political correctness environment in the job market right now is very tricky and I can point out life experiences with them in cases that I was not personally involved. I admit that I do not know the details of Ford’s administration with females, but like congressman Conyers said about Bill Clinton, “We are not God, we can’t judge a man”. Stupid remark because the issue was about a boss using his position to take sexual advantage of a female determined to advance her status in the white house. Whatever happened with Ford and female subordinates I would venture to say was no way near the Clinton/Monica affair.
    We learn from national history and the mistakes we find often apply to our local issues.
    One thing we have learned is that anyone can sue, and sometimes it is more economical to settle.
    All I can say is if what Ford might have done in a feminine discrimination case is important to you, than go for it. As for me, whatever your findings are, I expect that they will not impress me. If you want to compare the financial loss of defending the city against a law suit I would say that it is the cost of providing services by a governmental agency. That cost in my opinion of a legal defense would still not compare favorably with the financial losses by the city because of ineptness and malfeasance. Those are my thoughts. Ford might not be reelected because of this previous alleged feminine discrimination suit. Are there not females who will rush to judgment because of such previous court actions? Yes there are. Are there males who will not rush to judgment about such previous court actions? Yes there are. Mr. concerned Citizen I would say to you that if your judgment of Ford’s leadership as a city council man is of utmost concern to you unless you know the details of that law suite, I would advise don’t waste your time, and just vote against the man. If you are looking for reasons not to vote for him, and you do not yet know what they are, you are a lost cause, and will forever be looking for reasons not to vote for him. You have seen his actions and what he stands for during his 4 years as councilman. It is my impression that we have to hear more from Sonya Laney. All I know about her is that she is an experienced CPA, is “not up Green’s butt”, and does not like accountability harassment. After seeing CPAs work in audit companies I am no longer impressed. Need I tell you about the CPAs who audited a nonprofit religious time share eternity resort program who felt no need to report that the people who bought into this time share vacation would not be able to be placed into a one week vacation room until the year 2060? Do you want more stories about CPAs?
    Not all people who are cpas are bad people. Not all people who have been sued are bad people. I was sued for 1.3 million dollars by a black Doctor who in his arrest for drunken driving by two of my officers started kicking one officer and the office returned blows to the Doctor’s face. I had nothing to do with the physical arrest and never saw the black doctor before I was subpoenaed to Brooklyn Civil Court to give testimony. I would guess that like Ford, it was determined that I did not have to pay anything but the state did settle. And yet despite that law suit I was able to administer as a police captain and urge my men to carry out the law of arrests when necessary. It is true that although coming out number one on the state civil service oral interview test for Chief of Police, my civil governing authorities decided to skip over me without giving a reason and appoint another person on the civil service list. And so it goes. Careers can be destroyed by law suits but I don’t think a man’s capabilities are destroyed by law suits.
    I would not be happy if Bob Ford could not represent my interest because of some previous feminine financial suit. — Sincerely hank springer.

    Reply
  • August 29, 2014 at 4:43 pm
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    OK kids – it likely is a non issue, as the issue or pattern of multiple issues occurred in the mid 90’s .
    I knew one of the involved parties and at the time in question it was made into a big deal.
    Some 17 years later, Mr Ford has not been banished from town and appears to serve his constituency fairly well. Possibly he can shed some light and put this entire deal to rest.
    If you want to get him re elected he has at minimum some 500 votes to gain and who knows what may happen in November.

    Reply
    • August 30, 2014 at 1:02 pm
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      Yes Mr. Concerned Citizen who knows what will happen in the Nov. elections.
      One thing I know is this. If Ford and Stiltner do not get elected we are all still here to watchdog the politics in this town. If Green and his supporters are hoping to continue with non transparency and little accountability we are still here and Port Orange Politics will never be the same again. That seems to disturb some. Thus the resentment to the message that Ford, Noftall and the rest of us are trying to deliver. The old days of pushing goals through by change orders, amendments to contracts, and letting drop at a city council meeting “I wish those who are running for elective office would get their facts straight” but not correcting the misinformation will no longer fly with those of us who are interested in city government and politics. I sent an e mail to Mayor Green and told him that I think it is important that he tells us about misinformation coming from a candidate so that we can judge our candidates knowledge. Green has not yet responded.
      Mr. concerned citizen, you seem to me to be somewhat behind the times and trying to catch up with what is happening in Port Orange. That’s ok, and keep trying to learn and please tell us what you think, especially where you think we are wrong.
      It seems to me that the chamber of commerce has networked out to its members to a call to arms and to vote in this election. The proper response for us who want Ford and Stiltner to be elected is to engage the silent majority who are not concerned with city politics. But it has been shown, that when they are shown that all ineptness by city administrations is going to cost the public money as soon as Mayor Green leaves office, I think they might get off their seats and go vote in the Nov. election.
      I hope so, but no matter what, politics will not be the same here in Port Orange again. That in my mind is an improvement.
      I am now preparing the audio of the Big John interview of Ted Noftall. I will be sending it up to you tube in 10 minute intervals. You will eventually be able to listen to all the parts of the one and 1/2 hour show on you tube, and also on my web site, http://www.popdradiolog.com
      I am working on part 1 now and it should be ready this afternoon.
      As the mayor likes to say “I’ll get back to you, all my investors in the city of Port Orange”. — Here, here! Amen!

      Reply
      • August 30, 2014 at 1:17 pm
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        Who Knows maybe reuse lake B hyper-extension and future dirt contract bid fixing coming to a theater near you in the not to distant future. Follow the dirt and it will take you to the special interest. Penetrate the corporate barrier and reveal the silent partners. Identify the facilitators within the organization and realize that the city charter can be circumvented if someone is pulling the strings from behind the scenes.

        Reply
  • August 30, 2014 at 12:13 pm
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    Allegory Of The Cave: Meet Your Puppet-Handlers
    Plato’s ‘The Allegory of the Cave‘ is from book VI of his most famous work, The Republic. He begins ‘The Allegory‘ by describing a dark cave found underground where a group of people are sitting in ‘one long row with their backs to the cave’s entrance’. They are chained to their chairs from an early age and all that the humans can see is the distant cave wall in front of them. Their view of reality is completely based upon this limited view of the cave which but an unenlightened view of the real world.
    In addition to the chained people, there are other people in the cave. Plato refers to them as the puppet-handlers and they are the ones holding those in the cave captive. (It is important to realize that the prisoners do not realize this–in fact, the prisoners do not even realize that they are being held captive since this existence is all they have ever known.) Walking behind the prisoners, the puppet-handlers hold up various objects found in the real world. Due to a fire that is burning the mouth of the cave, the prisoners are able to see the objects and each other only as distorted, flickering shadows on the cavern wall in front of them.
    The prisoners can not see the actual objects or the puppet-makers because they are unable to turn their heads. From childhood, “…their legs and necks [have been] in bonds so that they are fixed, seeing only [what is] in front of them…. As Plato goes on to later explain, “the truth would be literally nothing but the shadows of the images.”
    Similarly to the Plato’s engulfing allegory is the current state of todays world wherein humans believe exactly what they are told by the oligarchy (i.e puppet-handlers), refusing to question what their eyes behold.We are brutally fooled by the political masquerades thus easily allowing ourselves to believe what we hear within the limited scope of society (i.e the cave). Furthermore, we accept what our senses tell us
    1. that what we are experiencing, seeing and hearing through the mainstream media is all that really exists, [and that]
    2. [there is] nothing more [than this].
    The puppet-handlers, as Plato calls them in his allegory, represent the prominent, authoritarian members of society (i.e the Government) who live inside the artificial paradigm that they have created for the rest of us.
    Going along with the allegory we notice that Plato does give us hope; one freed prisoner who would eventually escape and flee the cave wherein he would see,for the first time, what the real world looks like.
    After finding himself free the intellectual individual would then “…suffer sharp pains; the glare [would] distress him, and he [would] be unable to see the realities of which in his former state he had seen the shadows….he’d be at a loss and believe that what was seen before is truer than what is now shown.”
    This can easily be related to the amount of confusion one meets once he is aware of reality,beyond what the media and oligarchy have been feeding us. Later the confusion will subside and:
    “When he approaches the light his eyes will be dazzled, and he will not be able to see anything at all of what are now called realities… He will require to grow accustomed to the sight of the upper world. And first he will see the shadows best, next the reflections of men and other objects in the water, and then the objects themselves; then he will gaze upon the light of the moon and the stars and the spangled heaven….Last of he will be able to see the sun…”
    After the discovery of the sun (i.e The Truth) the intellectual individual will then wish to share the life-changing discovery of the real world with those still trapped in the cave – setting out on a mission to free them from their chains. An example of these types of intellectuals would be bloggers, underground media news broadcasters etc […]
    But as a blogger myself I can attest to the fact that this mission is not at all simple due to the fact that, like in Plato’s allegory, those still trapped in the artificial world become hostile and refuse to face the possibility of another reality – for this would go against every form of understanding they have been fed to believe.
    The Allegory of the Cave, written over 2000 years ago, is undeniably relevant today – maybe even more than it was during the time of Plato – and just as in the allegory there are main characters which cause the fable to continue:
    1.Those chained within the cave:
    Refusing to take notice to anything but the shadows on the wall. An example can be those who sit and watch their television,refusing to seek out anything besides the shadows displayed through the screen (the television sets we have are just more advanced cave walls).
    2.The puppet-handlers:
    Individuals/Groups who form the shadows on the cave walls for the prisoners to see (i.e mainstream media,government) – nothing more.
    3.The freed men:
    Those who leave the cave and walk into the light (i.e Truth) yet do not use the knowledge they have found or ignore it.
    4.The freed men who come back to free the rest of the prisoners:
    The bloggers,radical journalists,underground broadcasters etc […]
    The meaning behind Plato’s allegory is that the majority within society shall prefer to remain chained to their ignorance or allow themselves to remain shackled to the false reality fed to them by the oligarchy – left only to with the shadows of truth oftentimes manipulated by the puppet-handlers (i.e government). Only a few,the wise and intelligent,will be willing to free themselves from these shackles and open their eyes to the truth, no matter how blinding it may be at first.
    This is our allegory and we are living it right now. So take your pick – Do you stay in the cave or free yourself?

    Reply
    • August 31, 2014 at 10:34 am
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      To Hermes from hank springer. Excellent recount of Plato’s Cave story.
      It does cast skepticism on all of our opinions and understanding of the world. I have come to the conclusion that in light of the cave’s thesis, we need to be adamantly prepared to doubt and change our opinions when verifiable facts are presented to us. I look upon such preparedness as chiseling away at the cave, a little bit at a time, and perhaps changing opinions many times. Some religious people have asked me if I would change my agnosticism about God if He appeared before me and spoke to me. I reply after verifying that I am not delusional or out of mind, I would believe. And then I ask them, what if I wrote my own bible, and people 2000 years later read what God told me all you people should be doing to live good lives, would you believe my written word?
      Because real knowledge seems to evolve like peeling skins on an onion, I think opinions should be ever refined. Like now, I am considering joining the Tea Party.

      Reply
  • August 30, 2014 at 1:18 pm
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    I do not know of anyone who has ever received an e- mail reply from Mayor Green.
    He distances himself from technology and any type of written documentation.

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    • August 30, 2014 at 2:22 pm
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      it also seems to me that updated technology is also slow to come to city operations in Port Orange.

      Reply
  • August 30, 2014 at 2:59 pm
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    You folks haven’t figured it out yet. “Concerned Citizen” is far from behind the times or ignorant.
    He is playing possum with you. I think he is an insider toying with you.

    Reply
    • August 30, 2014 at 8:21 pm
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      Maybe he is one of the mayor’s perfunctory pets feeling all warm and cozy in his self entitlement until his next excursion into scapegoat terra incognita. They forget so fast that they almost choked on the Golden Corral Buffet yesterday. I suppose he received the green light that his new mission of obfuscation and role therein exempts him from anything but perfunctory service.
      This of course will be spun as him standing in the hedge during difficult transitional times, and he will reemerge as a key team player in support of any opaque obfuscating regime that emerges.
      Ignorance is bliss, and expect the council to give a big round of applause like they have for so many people in the past that ultimately screwed the citizens of Port Orange. Memories are short and all politicians like a good back patting party.
      Unfortunately it appears on the surface that they will never learn the lessons of the famous essayist and philosopher George Santayana, who has said, ” Those that do not learn the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them over and over again”.
      Unfortunately this will be at the continual expense of the citizens of this bedroom community while conversely being to the benefit of the mayor and his special interest entourage.
      Good luck with your blissful ostrich mentality. We can only hope that in the next couple of years that the majority of elected officials that emerge will not be motivated by special interest, whoever they may be, but will be insightful individuals that can think outside the box and are full of character, wisdom, and selflessness. If that occurs then the Allen Green/Don Burnette era will have ended.

      Reply
      • August 30, 2014 at 10:02 pm
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        Follow the dirt Grasshopper!

        Reply
    • August 31, 2014 at 9:50 am
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      Yep..seeing that too Possum…certainly getting out an agenda under the guise of neutrality…he is good at it too..be wary folks..

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    • August 31, 2014 at 10:39 am
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      To playing possum from hank springer. Yes it may be that some bloggers are toying with us. And they do not have to be anonymous to play that game. To me it is still ok, because they use issues to play their games and give us an opportunity to address those issues.

      Reply
  • August 30, 2014 at 11:08 pm
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    Bob, please grow a pair and quit vacillating and contradicting yourself. That is why Sonya Laney edged you out. You have many supporters but some question your ability to stand with your supporters instead of behind them. You are the intellectual basis in standing against special interest but the only one that has shown any cojones is Drew Bastian.
    People that have supported you within the organization are loosing confidence in your resolve to stick your neck out and stand firm. Scott Stiltner will most likely be elected and be a wash for your loss, but how much better will it be for the citizens if you prevail. You need to overtly stand up to the mayor and quit worrying about being politically correct. You also need to quit sending mixed messages to people within the organization that have supported you.
    Some people are beginning to think that Sonya Laney has more testosterone than you. People that put it on the line are not there at your disposal, hopefully you are not an elitist so either stand with the troops or not. We do not need an armchair general who says he is behind us all the way. Put it all on the line and show that you are a true leader.
    The crux of the biscuit is that you and Sonya Laney need to show your constituency where you truly stand, and that you will stand there side by side as opposed to behind the people that put it on the line. Once the voters know where you stand, and whether you are willing to risk putting it out there, then maybe you will be able to gain back that 5% plus that you were down and need. If you think this is not the case, then maybe Sonya Laney may surprise us like the PEA/PBA thinks and will be the better selection. I think your stance against the mayor’s special interest agenda suggests that you are the better selection.

    Reply
    • August 31, 2014 at 11:19 am
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      To Toni from Hank. I hear what you are saying, and to an extent I think you are correct.
      I had voiced some of your concerns in the past in my private e mails. At one point I thought Bob Ford was only playing with Green’s problems because Ford was having fun and did not really want to put forth any bold resolutions to fix the many problems.
      At another point in the alleged move to reform City Hall I thought that more pressure on all the city council members should be applied by us anti-present city hall folks while ignoring Green and Kisela.
      Then I had a conversation with Ford. I got the picture that Ford thinks he had to have some political room to maneuver and that timing of resolutions to really fix things were of importance. I settled to accept that, especially when Kisela did leave. Kisela leaving was an improvement in issues, in my opinion, by Ford hinting at such a proposition at a city council meeting and the persistent efforts of Ted Noftall. Perhaps Ford would have done better in his reelection bid if Ford had used some attack weapons in the reform movement. In any case, these few months before the runoff election are now the time for Ford to throw around some bombs.
      I will say this. That after run offs, and whoever are the new city council members, they will get my direct attention and I will not care to hear any more BS about Kennedy, Green, or a city manager. With all these city manager changes, and city administration changes, I will no longer be waiting for people to “settle in”. They use that arbitrary time period to delay implementing what will probably change the working environment for all city employees. I must tell you, that although a politician may not approach this area of concern, but damn the morale of good working bottom line city employees. We are focusing on fixing our financial affairs and in the long run an efficiently run city government with true accountability will be good for honest, hardworking bottom of the line city employees.
      I am also inclined, immediately, to ask for legal prosecution of any new “mistakes” which are found to be of a criminal nature.
      Enough is enough, and in no way do I want to continue or expect the city of Port Orange to return to the good old days of “blissful ignorance”. What I am seeing now is that perhaps Ford was too lenient on his accountability premise and perhaps even now for his chances at being reelected he is worried about not showing enough of compassion for people stuck in thorny issues, but as far as I am concerned, my opinion turns back to what I had though just before Kisela resigned: my opinion now is enough is enough, city council members need to get the heat to get on the ball. We already know what they are up against. It is the Green machine, “We Are Family” mentality, and a vision for Port Orange to build, build, build, and damn minding the candy store and getting our justified revenue in, because after all we have “investors” out there to come up with the money.
      So my personal revised perspective and opinion on local city affairs is this.
      1. Ford runs his reelection campaign as he sees fit.
      2. If anything appears to be of a criminal nature comes up after 9 1 14 I will ask for legal prosecution.
      3. When the city election is over with in November, I will direct my attention towards those still on the city council and those coming to sit on the city council on 1 1 14?
      It will be beneficial to me then to not engage in any more discussions about a city manager or Mayor Green. Everything in my mind will depend on city council actions and I intend to start applying some accountability to city council. I think by now we all understand what the problems are. And I for one am of the opinion of no more explaining how Green, city managers and chamber of commerce are part of the problem, but how the solutions reside with meaningful resolutions by our city council.
      And if it turns out that you can’t beat city hall, then at least I can go to my grave cursing and spitting at the city council for not representing the average tax payer.
      City council members, you will all be under my magnifying glass. Green and city manager, you can rest easy with Hank the Shank. He will no longer interested in you.
      Good luck guys. — Hank

      Reply
      • August 31, 2014 at 1:36 pm
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        How did that one on one interview / Q&A session with Mayor Green work out ?

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  • August 31, 2014 at 9:51 am
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    Damning with faint praise…

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    • August 31, 2014 at 10:00 am
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      Maybe its tough love. You hsve to admit that things are not looking good for him unless he throws out all the stops. He needs to reetablish himself with those that agree with him in principle but question his resolve.

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  • August 31, 2014 at 9:54 am
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    Sorry Toni..was responding to Possum’s comment…..not your post..

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  • August 31, 2014 at 7:23 pm
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    Bob,
    Toni Clifton is right as rain .
    If you do not quit vacillating and contradicting yourself your inconsistencies are going to give Sonya the ammunition needed to edge you out in November as happened in August.
    If you are hoping that 2 temporary hires have made everything in OZ OK again, and that some olive oil infused brownies and organic peaches and pears, will nullify Sonya’s message you are mistaken.
    Your supporters know that the problems are deep rooted and will never be resolved until Council is insistent they be resolved. You were leading your supporters in that charge from the front but it is looking more and more like you are now trying to position yourself to the rear of your supporters. .
    Now is not the time to lose confidence or resolve.
    Now is the time to rally your supporters and close this election out by taking credit for the departures of Kisela, Yarborough, Saunders, Gurnee, ET-all and by promising to finish the job of needed change.

    Reply
    • September 1, 2014 at 12:30 pm
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      Yes, there is still the Southern Plantation owner & his wannabee sidekick left, and, their is also Gravel Gurdy & her Dragon Lady, Peg Leg, and Knuckle Dragger left. The mayor is using these and a few select others as the nucleus to rebuild his special interest management team with, and as soon as he can acquire a permanent FCCMA city manager, that will assist him to bring in an upper management team of FCCMA retreads, rife with an engineer crony of his picking, with undying loyalty that will relinquish their responsibility and accountability and become marionettes for the mayor we will be back to square one.
      By that time you will no longer have any brave troops left to fight side by side with you for open governance, transparency, and integrity because they will have all retired or flew the coupe in disgust. The troops need you to be beside them all the way, and not following right behind them. Leaders do not lead from the coat tails but lead from the forefront by example.
      If you make a definitive, consistent, and indomitable stand against the crap that is still going on behind the scenes, and do it fast, It wouldn’t surprise me if the majority of employees turned out in droves to vote for you in November. I also believe you would regain the endorsements from the organizations that you have recently estranged yourself from. You would also be able to harvest many of the votes from those that supported the candidate that lost in the primaries. It is not too late to mobilize with your troops and potential troops and show them that you are a leader of action to win the upcoming election. Good luck from a supporter that has been somewhat disappointed of late.

      Reply
  • August 31, 2014 at 8:25 pm
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    Way too much pointing fingers and name calling without evidence of facts? No one knows all the facts, yet everyone professes to have a strong opinion as it is factual. It is fine to suggest something may seem to be a certain way, but there is very little evidence provided to confirm it is true in the vast majority of theses accusations. We do know if one says something enough times they start to believe it themselves and even become adamant about it. How about some solid facts and just maybe there will be more creditability to some of these posts? The city is in excellent financial shape with a surplus of cash reserves as pointed out by our auditors and recent bond refunding of debt. Yet, we tax payers need to watch closely the unfunded liability and start addressing our sewer lines. We need to focus our energies on those two issues (the elephant is in the room) and not so much blurring the big problem with small items, posters are tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. I do not believe there is any intentional abuse of power or justification to believe the majority of council or staff isn’t doing the best they can for the benefit of all of us. While we may disagree on how to get there, we’ll always debate issues on how to run the city. Give the council credit for doing what they can and if you don’t approve, then do as a few have recently and provide as much evidence as possible in a civil way and a solution. Problems are the easy part, solving them is another.

    Reply
    • September 1, 2014 at 12:36 pm
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      Either someone has been dancing around a pole too much and is dizzy or drank too much brew at a jaguars game!

      Reply
  • September 1, 2014 at 10:50 am
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    So because we have plenty of reserves, and got bond funding approved, this somehow mitigates all of the monies lost through mis management over the past few years ?
    The hundreds of thousands into the millions is a petty matter ?
    There has not been clear cut evidence of this mis management and lost monies ?

    Reply
    • September 1, 2014 at 1:17 pm
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      Thank you CC.
      A letter that details one instance of that sort of thing is on this blog right now. Writer is Mike Gardner.
      Called “Whose Idea Was That”?
      Your thoughts?

      Reply
  • September 1, 2014 at 12:39 pm
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    Be specific, please. How about the unfunded liability, concerned? This is millions, not thousands. Most businesses pay as they go especially when it comes to benefits. I am not discounting any monies lost, but certainly is small potatoes when it comes to the previously mentioned issues wouldn’t you agree?

    Reply
  • September 1, 2014 at 2:17 pm
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    I get your point and can’t strongly disagree other than to say, we don’t know what we don’t know.
    We kept getting blindsided by fiscal errors of many types. You are a big picture thinker it seems and the glass is always half full. So the city squandered or misappropriated a million or so. In the big scheme of things you don’t sweat this.
    Many on this blog do not or cannot view things this way.

    Reply
    • September 1, 2014 at 2:58 pm
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      I think you are understating things exponentially and many of the losses have come with so much obfuscation that they are almost incalculable. Ted is not even able to get a good read on expenditures of the reuse augmentation system going back 20 years because if you go back more than 2 or 3 years in this city’s finance and recordkeeping tracking it gets all ambiguous.
      Those responsible for driving the bus during that period, as a matter of fact those responsible for driving the bus in the last couple of years and dodged accountability just flew the coupe. The only common denominator and remaining bus driver, albeit from behind the scenes and contrary to city charter is that old southern plantation owner. This is the same one that is desperately trying to resurrect an opaque management team that will obscure transparency and paint a pretty picture of the state of small town governmental affairs in Port Orange.
      Many of the financial losses such as the reuse augmentation lakes fiasco, the obscuration of dirt excavation revenues, failures in past, present, and hopefully not future small and large meter replacement programs, billing & finance errors up the ying yang, capital project mismanagements galore, and a plethora of upper management FCCMA special interest management hiring fiascos that have not been acknowledged for accountability to date with no substantive evidence that they are being significantly corrected going forward.
      All we see and hear are excuses like the ones you are giving, short memories with no learned lessons, and a gearing up to reestablish the same kind of special interest opaque management team for future endeavors of malfeasance and misfeasance. Will this crap ever desist?

      Reply
  • September 1, 2014 at 3:01 pm
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    So is the Ford vs. Laney public debate a reality or idle rumor ?
    When and where ?

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    • September 1, 2014 at 3:41 pm
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      Hopefully it is more of a reality than the mayor accepting a legitimate, honorable, and transparent interview from Hank Springer concerning honest questions from his constituency and then cancelling at the last moment with no legitimate excuse. We will have to see who issues the debate challenge. Then we will see if the one that accepts the challenge doesn’t cancel at the last minute and then go into hiding like some other spineless shady politician we all know.

      Reply
      • September 1, 2014 at 9:05 pm
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        Floki, think about your “spineless shady politician” comment. This is a guy who’s not required to meet with anyone. Who has put a lifetime into public service. Who has logged countless hours helping shape our community. Who helped create the first organized youth sports in Port Orange. Who physically built the early ballfields. And who has done more positive in Port Orange than probably anyone over his lifetime. He isn’t perfect, none of us are, but he’s no politician, he’s committed a lifetime of public service to shaping Port Orange. You, I or anyone else can’t match his effort in community service. I don’t support your criticism of the Mayor.

        Reply
        • September 2, 2014 at 3:46 pm
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          All that is fine, but his long legacy will NOT be remembered for all that. It will be remembered for “what have you done lately”
          Ken Parker gave 25 years too – and how do we remember his legacy ? We remember him for being the crux of many of the problems we face today.
          Take a page from Derek Jeter and get out while you are on top not a failing long term curmudgeon just hanging on.

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        • September 2, 2014 at 6:19 pm
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          “Shaping” Port Orange ?
          I think we have got rather out of shape.

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      • September 2, 2014 at 3:49 pm
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        Why just a Q&A session with Hank ?
        Why not an open public “Town Hall Meeting” where we ALL can attend and pose questions to the Honorable Mayor Green ?
        Highy doubt this would ever happen. “Spineless and shady” are indeed proper adjectives to be used in describing this man.

        Reply
  • September 1, 2014 at 7:45 pm
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    Misappropriated, you mean the water meters? If so, they all were used and no losses of dollars, other than the barrage of complaints that cost the city tax payers dollars for city staff and outside council to investigate the error for weeks or months. Sure, things can be put in place to keep tighter controls on spending and monitoring contracts as they should be and this should be the managers responsibility and the finance manager to implement these. This should be a given. What percent of the budget are these so called misappropriation $ as compared to the sewer line replacement and unfunded liabilities? It is huge. Not sure what is happening about a debate, although I did see it in the paper that it may happen.

    Reply
  • September 2, 2014 at 10:39 am
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    Here is a political joke:
    A republican, a democrat, and an independent polititian stop into a cocktail lounge after a political convention for a martini. What kind
    of greeting does the bartender give?
    Answer: Hey Charly Crist what are you drinking today?

    Reply
  • September 2, 2014 at 11:09 am
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    Onlooker,
    While all of the Mayor’s accolades you have listed and more besides are true they are not able to mitigate the increasingly criticism he is facing. The real tragedy here is that the Mayor has been unwilling to declare victory and let go.
    Picture for a moment the very best father you can imagine and guess what …the relationship he has with his children is completely different when they are age 40 than when they are 10, AND if it is not different he will most likely not have a relationship at all.
    Port Orange has grown and matured in the past 40 years AND rather than embrace that change Allen has sought to use his knowledge and position to game what should be a level Council Field to ensure his positions prevail including never re-considering those decisions made 20 and 25 years ago that are no longer right for Port Oange. .
    Plenty of cronies and incomplete segmented defused information never leading to anything close to the big picture have been his stock in trade, AND like that father whose relationship with his grown children never matured, Allen will soon have no relationship with a city that I know he cares deeply about.
    His behind the scenes efforts to to replace Kennedy’s lackey vote with Laney’s so he can maintain a 3-2 control of Council will be his own tragic undoing.
    So Onlooker, if you care for the Mayor and all his legacy …. encourage him to stop trying to game the system.

    Reply
    • September 2, 2014 at 2:41 pm
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      Ted,
      Aren’t we all trying to “game the system” to get things done how each of us think it should be done. With out that effort, we wouldn’t have political parties or differing opinions. It’s not unique to the Mayor. You just don’t agree with the Mayor, thus you would like to “game the system” for your beliefs. True???

      Reply
  • September 2, 2014 at 7:00 pm
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    Tonight was a perfect example of King Green and voting for his own agenda on an issue.
    The young lady representing the City Center market asked for a small decrease in rental fees. She was very articulate and presented an excellent case. She had done her homework well. She is attempting to promote this newly opened market and make it a nice civic event each week.
    All four council members voted YES as they obviously get it and wanted to do what’s right for all constituents. But King Green puts in his NO vote because he wants more local veggie vendors.
    He seems to be a miserable old man, unflexible, and unwilling to change with the times.

    Reply
    • September 2, 2014 at 10:50 pm
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      The Mayor said 2 things…he wanted go local vendors (which the lady answered appropriate with the time of year issue) and he also commented on competition to established local business’s who pay property taxes. He has regularly taken that position on temporary vendors. He does the same with Christmas tree yards when they come for approval siting Lowes and Home Depot sell them also and pay taxes year round. He is consistent with that type of issue, you may just disagree with his position. Disagreeing with his position doesn’t quailify him as a miserable old man. It would be great if people could recognize the difference between someone thinking different than you and feeling the need to attack someone personally.

      Reply
  • September 2, 2014 at 7:51 pm
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    Maybe it’s me, but tonight’s meeting seemed to have a different aura or synergy about it.
    Some questions were actually answered at the dais, Ted threw some fastballs at council in an attempt to pin down answers. (Great job Ted) and the interim CM stepped in and gave an answer !
    Are we seeing some slight progress ?

    Reply
    • September 3, 2014 at 6:06 am
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      I don’ t want to be premature, after all it was only the first council meeting with the new C/M but I got the same vibe. He actually answered questions presented by Ted, and we actually had a 4 to 5 vote on the flea market request. Will wonders never cease?
      Not wanting to wish my life away….I will be looking forward to the end of the Mayor Green era. He may have done some good things for Port Orange in the past,.making him a very rich man along the way but he is now obsolete, needs to sit on is back porch in his rocker and chew his tobacco.

      Reply
      • September 3, 2014 at 6:26 am
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        It didn’t escape my notice that the Mayor is always disrespectful to people during the public comment section of the meeting.
        He was especially disrespectful to Newton White and Mark Shaffer…with his “Ok, come on come on “remarks. He has no patience for listening to anyone but himself. I caught him saying these things several times…anyone else catch him?

        Reply
        • September 3, 2014 at 8:20 am
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          Nobody seems to have the nerve to stand up to the man. Yes, the meeting needs to be conducted with a certain amount of decorum.
          A simple “excuse me” as a reply when he acts like this is appropriate.
          He will never learn and never change.

          Reply
  • September 3, 2014 at 10:29 am
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    ” Aren’t we all trying to “game the system” to get things done how each of us think it should be done” ??
    I don’t think so Onlooker,
    I always understood ‘gaming the system’ to mean taking advantage of the rules of a system to provide an edge that is not available to others OR that others do not avail of.
    By that measure the Mayor is pressing advantages not available to others on Council and certainly not available to simple bloggers who have nothing more than their powers of persuasion to advance their positions.
    To suggest you and I are “gaming the system” would be to equate our whit or wisdom with authority and insider information, AND I would consider that to be an unfair comparison.

    Reply
    • September 3, 2014 at 1:02 pm
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      Ted,
      I understand your position, but don’t agree. I don’t view the Mayor as stronger or weaker than any other council member. He’s one vote like the others. He has positions he believes in like the others do. He may be more direct and / or abrasive sometimes than others, but thinking he has an advantage others do not is, in my mind, only saying that no one wants to challenge his thought process. That is in the other council members and /or residents. The thought that he is so entrenched and the council bows to his wishes isn’t true. Bob has swayed more opinions on that council than the Mayor has in the last few years. Would be interested to know what advantages the mayor has over other council people. Besides running the meetings, all council has same powers as the Mayor does???

      Reply
      • September 3, 2014 at 5:52 pm
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        This mayor is weak…sorry he needs to go

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        • September 3, 2014 at 8:44 pm
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          He needs to take Lizard Drainer Lance with him to!

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  • September 3, 2014 at 3:49 pm
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    Quite an interesting letter to the editor in the News Journal on 9/3/14/
    The letter disparrages Councilman Ford to the max.
    Interesting that the letter writer is a head of one of the larger HOA associations on the west side of the city. Maybe Mr. Ford should focus more on areas outside of District 1 as he is losing votes in the other voting districts within the city.

    Reply
    • September 3, 2014 at 5:44 pm
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      There needs to be a debate before November. Go Ford! Go Stiltner!

      Reply
      • September 3, 2014 at 8:18 pm
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        Fully agree, in order for Ford to have a shot at re election, he needs to go head to head vs. Laney and pin her down on the issues. If she continues to be non committal and wishy washy he may gain.
        Ford is strong in his own district but the other three districts are pro Laney.
        Ride through some of the larger subdivisions on the west side and look at the yard signs.

        Reply
  • September 3, 2014 at 7:44 pm
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    Some will never understand politics, only their own opinion. Most politicians feel they can have a positive impact on the community and that is why they got involved in the first pace. Some would want us to believe these council members are in a position of power to vote the way a hand full of people want them too. They all are capable of forming their own opinions and that is why they were voted in office in the first place.
    Any ideas or recommendations for a solution to our unfunded liabilities? Focus on the big ticket items… Let our city staff manage the daily details of controls.

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  • September 3, 2014 at 8:29 pm
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    I see there has been a little well deserved and hopefully well received tough love of late for councilman Bob Ford. I think many of Bob’s supporters, be they avid or marginal ones were disappointed in the primary election results. Some of the feedback I have heard and the constructive criticisms may be harsh but should be taken heed of and responded to positively by Mr. Ford. Over much criticism can be discouraging, and telegraphing this to his undecided potential constituency may not be in his favor.
    The bottom line is that if Bob Ford is reelected and Scott Stiltner gets in this will be a major victory for open & transparent governance as well as a victory for the average Port Orange resident. This will also signal the beginning of the end of the old southern plantation owner special interest regime of Allen Green and Don Burnette. The people will have a reason to celebrate and a small special interest faction of crony’s will rage at this new paradigm.
    Approximately 8,000 voters came out for the primaries that were largely highly motivated special interest voters. There will be well over twice this many voters in November and the majority of them will be members of this bedroom community that are out to do their civic voting duty but are less informed about the candidates and the issues that underlie this election. This means that the battlefield comprises reaching out to these undecided voters and impressing on these individuals that are not a part of the special interest crony constituency that their vote will decide whether open and transparent governance will be supplanted by special interest or not.
    I think that Ford has made a number of correctable mistakes by commission and omission going into the primaries that are reversible if he acts expediently and realizes his short comings and has the wisdom to take sound advice and act upon it. The following are some of the things that Ford needs to do or change in order to win the election in November:
    1. Be cognizant of the fact that the whole city will be voting for him and address important issues that effect the entire city population instead of only focusing in on the improvement of the US1 corridor. In a nutshell reach more people city wide and embrace the important issues more holistically.
    2. Be a little more realistic and definitive about improving the US1 corridor and bring more than vagueness and ambiguity to what you mean by transforming the US1 corridor. Drive US1 from Jacksonville to Miami and understand that it is what it is. You can make some incremental improvements but your not going to change it into Disney’s Celebrity. Be realistic and understand that it is not the beginning and the end of all Port Orange’s priority issues.
    3. Sprout a pair and fight mayor Green and his special interest regime vociferously. Quit holding your hand on your head during council meetings and assuming a defeatist body language. Don’t vacillate or contradict yourself at council meetings and take the offensive. You need to be a role model and a mentor for Drew Bastian and if you survive the election you also need to be one for Scott Stiltner. Draw a line in the sand against those who obfuscate transparency and lead by example, showing your fellow councilmen how to stand firm against special interest agendas and mayoral gaming of the system.
    4. Demonstrate that you are a friend to employee stakeholders and blue collar employees and that you support our internal talent and don’t write off our internal leadership like the mayor and his elitist brigade do. Most employees are representative of the demographic of this community and only a very small percentage of them are entrenched crony’s of the mayor. Rally the troops to come out and add another 400 votes to your coffers and many more from their family, friends, and associates. You can get their support if you stop vacillating, quit contradicting yourself with mixed messages, and drawing a line in the sand against the special interest regime of The mayor’s and vice mayor and stop flailing in defeat at council meetings.
    5. Don’t burn your bridge with the employee associations like the PEA, PBA, and IAAF. No one is asking you to throw away the baby with the bath water and do their bidding, but at least convince them that you will meet them half way and bargain in good faith. This is a right to work State and unions have limited power so at least recognize their role in advocating for blue collar workers and be open to reasonability and good faith bargaining.
    6. Start to hammer the important issues like the need to have a referendum vote on the TIFF money going to Buddy Lacour, transparency and accountability from city hall, potential malfeasance and improprieties on the reuse lake project and augmentation system in the past not being fully addressed, non existent revenue increases from a questionable meter replacement, no accountability and meager progress in addressing internal controls within the city, the apparent improprieties and obfuscation of the past dirt contract and potential future improprieties with the mayor’s system gaming and meddling,workforce infrastructure, successorship, and morale problems within the city workforce, long range holistic planning and redirection of TIFF money holistically to effect systemic improvements around the city that reflect the needs, wants, and desires of the city’s true demographic.
    7. Insist on having a number of public debates on important issues with Sonya Laney and show her and everyone that you stand against special interest and for open and transparent governance. Draw a line in the sand on the important issues and force her to show her true colors and where her loyalties stand. You need as much exposure to convince the undecided voters that their vote will determine whether there will be open governance for the people or whether the Allen Green southern plantation era will continue.
    8. Solicit the help and intellectual advice of people like Hank Springer and many of the fine citizen activists that work endlessly to establish transparency and open governance. There are many that will rally and support your campaign efforts if you will reach out to them and accept their ideas and support. Think outside the box and get some kind of memorabilia or campaign advertising handouts or giveaways out to your constituency that will get your name, and its association of your position for open and transparent governance before their eyes and in their homes on a daily basis. The main thing is you need to mobilize a cohesive plan of action expediently and put it into action so that you can reach the 10,000 plus addidtional voters that are undecided as yet and will come out in November. You need enough time for your message to get out there any marinate in their hearts and minds.
    I am asking that all supporters of Bob Ford think outside the box and provide him with insights and suggestions to reach the additional voters that will come out in November with the message of transparency and open governance. Unless you enjoy being share croppers on a system gaming politicians southern plantation and do not feel that Port Orange is the citizen’s city than get on board and support open and transparent governance. Show your support and share your collective intelligence while backing Bob Ford. Power to the people!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtvlBS4PMF0

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    • September 4, 2014 at 4:22 pm
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      THAT is the best post ever written on this blog ! Kudos Don Juan.
      I am sure Mr Ford reads this and will take heed to what has been written. He is swimming against the current right now, but he can prevail if he rights the ship.
      When is the debate ?

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    • September 4, 2014 at 4:30 pm
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      Don J–You are very right-on in your observations about Bob Ford and Sonya Laney. Whatever small differences of opinion I may have with Mr Ford pale in comparison to Ms Laney–she is downright spooky. Somehow she has managed to infer that Bob Ford is a member of the old guard while she is the one interested in change! Nothing could be farther from the truth. The only change she wants is a return to the days of the good-ol-boys with the addition of a good-ol-gal. In other words, “shut up citizens, go to the back of the bus, and let us “smart people” do the driving.”
      Mr Ford (with the sometime backing of Drew Bastian) has been the man pushing for open and honest governance, a true recognition of and desire to fix our current problems, and sensible and conservative spending of our tax dollars. I have yet to hear Ms Laney take a position on ANYTHING other than she is “a CPA and ethical.” I don’t know about you, but after someone tells me for the umpteenth time how ethical and honest they are I check my wallet.
      While she has not taken a position on anything, I can still judge her by her actions and her actions ain’t pretty. She has taken Buddy LaCour’s money and Mayor Green’s money. We know how tight Green and LaCour are so all I can say is “welcome to the family Sista Sonya.” Elect Sonya if you want to throw more of your tax dollars into that black hole that is Buddy LaCour, Inc!
      She has taken the low road from the very start of her campaign against Ford. (And I use the term “against Ford” because she has nothing positive to run for.) She has attacked Ford with ancient and unsubstantiated allegations, without even the decency of making the allegations herself, using instead the pitiful and embarrassing ex-mayor Judy Anderson as her surrogate gutter fighter. Yea Sonya, you’re ethical all right, excuse me while I check my wallet, again.
      Oh well. If it wasn’t so serious I’d be laughing.
      Mike Gardner
      618 Ruth St
      Port Orange, FL 32127
      386-527-1959
      manddgardner@cfl.rr.com

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      • September 4, 2014 at 4:50 pm
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        When and where is the public debate ?

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  • September 3, 2014 at 8:54 pm
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    Anyone know whatever happened to the Candidate profile or information section that was going to be created on this blog?

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  • September 4, 2014 at 4:56 pm
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    Is Sonya a licensed CPA or does she just have her certificate?? Anyone?? LMAO!! Florida Board of Accountancy 850-487-1395

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  • September 8, 2014 at 10:48 pm
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    I ran into an acquaintance while shopping today who sought out my opinion about political candidates and was trying to get what he considered an inside tract on the issues and where the candidates stand from someone he considered might have more in depth knowledge than the average citizen. This was an affable young man, college educated, and very concerned about making a difference for the betterment of the city with his vote. He had voted in the primaries and wanted my opinion on his selections. I told him that if he understood the issues and where the candidates stand it was not my place to tell him how to vote but that he should just vote according to his conscience and his due diligence.
    He indicated to me that he had voted against Bob Ford but that he was not sure what the candidate he voted for stood for. I asked him then why did you vote against Bob Ford? He told me he had watched a news report where the mayor had indicated that there were council members interfering with the day to day operation of the city and running off our employees. He also said he read in the news where it was intimated that Bob Ford was the culprit along with a group of radical citizen activists. He wanted to know what my take was on all this.
    I asked him first, what his biggest pet peeves were in city governance and what he would like to change in city politics. He told me that he would like to see the end of the Allen Green political regime and that he was a big advocate of open and transparent governance and eschewed special interest cronyism. He also said he was not happy about the TIFF subsidization of Buddy Lacoure’s Riverwalk project and that he would like to see a citizens referendum vote on this. Coincidentally representatives of Buddy Lacour were putting pressure on the interim city manager on the read file today to circumvent the process of verification of repayment of obligations from the bond company in order to seal the deal before a new council is seated and open and transparent governance can make the determination whether our taxpayers subsidize this millionaires risk to the tune of $10,000,000.
    I told him that if this is truly his position than he just inadvertently voted against the wrong man because if the mayor is to be neutered and if the TIFF subsidization has any chance of going to a citizens vote than he would probably want to vote for Bob Ford and Scott Stiltner who were advocates of open governance and supported by many of the activists that uncovered the malfeasance that the Alan Green regime supports and protects. I also explained to him that the employees that left the city left for different reasons.
    Alan Green’s beloved city manager Greg Kisela compelled the purchasing manager to resign or be fired. This city manager historically has run off a number of administrators before that. The public utility administrator officially resigned with allusions that this was due to the overspending of a meter contract, but in reality there was a review from the union wrapping up which was representing blue collar and mid-management employees that alleged that he was creating a hostile work environment which targeted certain employees on a blacklist and imploding the department in the midst of what was considered an administrative whitewashing and a lack of administrative accountability. This has yet to be responded to as promised by city administrators responsible for investigation and the administration of justice according to civil service rules concerning this matter. Namely, the administrative services director Donna Steinebach who has summarily showed disdain and demagogic disregard for civil service rules, justice, and her fiduciary responsibility in matters that are potentially litigious for the city.
    I also mentioned that the only person on the council known to visit city hall and circumvent the city manager and go directly to employees and communicate directives is the mayor himself. He has been considered by many to be an active puppet master who inserts himself into day to day operations and has been known to even circumvent the manager. He knew about the Parker/Shelley deal and many things without the city council even being informed. Many people believe that the mayor has been instrumental in making or breaking an employees career and either blacklisting or expediting them commensurate to how much an employee is willing to be one of his puppets.
    I also indicated to him that the Fire Chief’s resignation was ambiguous and that the city manager and assistant city manager left for other jobs which they cut extremely good deals for their career moves leaving behind their responsibility and accountability for the present distress all with the mayor’s blessing. The comptroller left under many negative financial disclosures and with the glee of many mid level and supervisory employees who did not like her. In essence none of this was directly related to Bob Ford but it was more of a systemic implosion that was a long time in the making which the mayor blamed on Bob Ford as a political ploy.
    ‘I asked him then why did he come to the conclusion that all this was attributable to Bob Ford? He said to me because he read and watched it on the news and this is what the mayor had disclosed to the investigative reporter. I asked him if he observed the reporter giving the mayor concurrence on this. He said he did not see that, however there was no one there to dispute or rebut what the mayor in the interview had said, so he simply took this on face value. After our conversation he thanked me and said that he would be voting for Bob Ford and Scott Stiltner in the final election and that he would question his due diligence going forward.
    The sad thing about this is that without even making an effort I redirected this young man’s vote with a little objective education that has not been properly provided in this political campaign. I predict that 5% to 10% of the candidates that either voted for Sonya Laney or John Junco voted for the same uninformed reason in the primaries that this young man did. I also believe that with proper message exposure, political debates, and clarification of where the candidates stand the primaries would have been different. I really believe that a support group and think tank needs to get behind Bob Ford and Scott Stiltner and figure out how to educate the uninformed voters before the election and do it fast. If I could have replicated the conversation I had today with this young man on a one to one basis with all the potential voters that are not tied into special interest I know that Bob Ford and Scott Stiltner would definitely be elected. I do not know if I can figure this out alone but all of us that are advocates of open and transparent governance need to figure out how to get this very individual message and information out there to the majority of uninformed and deceived potential voters.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtvlBS4PMF0

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