Is Allen Green & Ted Noftall Two Peas in a Pod?
Submitted on 2014/10/28 at 6:13 pm by Switch Hitter
What I do not understand about Ted, is that he had a run there, for quite some time where he was all about firing anybody and everybody.
I know he wanted the indiscriminate termination and pursuit of criminal charges against Roger Smith while being clueless about the real story behind that. He assumed a group of employees were criminally complicit and should suffer serious penalties which was the furthest thing from the truth.
He assumes that Warren Pike was scapegoated and all that clearly transpired was blown out of proportions for spurious reasons while not entertaining the thought that Betty Barnhart may have been scapegoated herself.
I am not sure if he realizes the special privileges and favoritism that Warren was the recipient of for years by the mayor and Ken Parker and his ability to skirt controls like the incident that he was suspended for in the past that was sighted on this web sight.
Ted has shown a lapse of reasoning and critical thinking in this instance and has demonstrated how discriminating his consternation or favor runs relative to presuppositions that he has with limited knowledge and insight into the true facts.
He seams to pronounce anathemas against some and declare the year of jubilee for others with the pomp befitting of a medieval king or emperor. . Ironically, the only other person that I know in the city that makes such hard and fast dogmatic pronouncements without all the facts, and feels as though he can do it with impunity is the mayor.
All I can say is Allen Green and Ted Noftall are two peas in a pod!
39 thoughts on “Is Allen Green & Ted Noftall Two Peas in a Pod?”
hank to switch. give me a phone call and tell me the real story about roger smith, please. hank 386 852 3178
At this time I will take a pass for reasons that your ultimate response on the read file makes clearly evident that you cannot be trusted plus your credibility has now come into question. Sadly, if Bob Ford is the man that should be elected, Ted Noftall and you have done so much damage to him between the blog and the read file in the past couple of days that in a close race you both have effectively tipped the scale in Sonya Laney’s favor. Even the Gardners realized this, and if Bob Ford is truly the man, he will have the wisdom to pronounce an anethema on Ted Noftall’s recent pronouncements and your uninformed pronouncements against anonymous posters, who whether you and Ted realize it or not have supplied you with about 95% of any valid organizational information you have received and obviously have misinterpreted. Based on your present arrogance I suspect you and Ted will not be receiving many more anonymous tips as your ego and blind devotion to Ted Noftall has ensured that this resource is about to dry up. Anyhow if we ever do hook up to discuss these things when the time comes you will make the approach because as the universal principle dictates, let the weaker come to the stronger.
Food for Hank and Ted’s thought
The Egomaniacal Thinking of the Disturbed Character
Dr. Simon 17 Jul 2009 character disturbance, entitlement, Personality and Character Disorders, personality disorders, relationships, self-esteem, thinking errors, Unhealthy Relationships
My recent posts have addressed several of the erroneous or distorted ways that disordered characters tend to think. The “thinking errors” disturbed characters engage in lead to the formation of irresponsible and antisocial attitudes which in turn lead to behaviors that cause problems in relationships with others. Some of the topics we’ve already discussed in this series of posts include the tendency of disordered characters to think solely of themselves without sufficient regard for others (see: Egocentric Thinking), to pay attention to only what they want to (see: The Inattentive Thinking of the Disturbed Character), and to engage in an unfortunate degree of self-deceit (see: Seeing the World as They Want to See It).
Disordered characters also often think far too much of themselves. They might even think that they’re so smart, so clever, or so “special” that they can do what most others wouldn’t dream of trying and somehow get away with it. They tend to think of themselves as so important or superior that they deserve things others don’t deserve. Their tendency to over-rate their abilities and their value led Stanton Samenow to describe them as “legends in their own minds.” In prior posts, I’ve written about the inflated self-image of disordered characters and how it contrasts with the self-esteem problems usually experienced by neurotics. And, I’ve also pointed out that whereas a neurotic individual might “compensate” for feelings of inadequacy by putting on a boastful front, disordered characters actually think of themselves as superior. It’s not a pretense, it’s a dysfunctional but actual core belief. Disturbed characters also often regard it a testament to their greatness if they can use their wits or manipulative skill to take things as opposed to really earning them. In those cases, their egomaniacal thinking combines with other erroneous thinking patterns and attitudes that predispose them to behaviors that exploit and victimize others.
Their habitually erroneous ways of thinking about themselves and their pathologically grandiose sense of self-importance inevitably leads disturbed characters to develop attitudes of arrogance, superiority, and most especially, entitlement. In all my years working with character-disordered individuals, by far the most challenging issue needing focus in therapy involves their sense of entitlement. But this sense of entitlement cannot develop in the first place without a consistent, pervasive sense of superiority to “justify” such an attitude. Some disordered characters think they’re above the rules, and “deserve” special consideration. So, when they want something, they feel entititle to have it or to take it without reservation and with complete indifference about whether their actions might negatively affect someone else.
A big change in cultural norms has contributed in recent years to the reinforcement of egomaniacal thinking. It’s not uncommon for young persons to be bombarded with messages that they’re “special” simply because they have a heartbeat. That’s because well-meaning individuals, steeped in old-school psychology, thought it wasn’t possible for a person to have too much self-esteem and that everyone would be emotionally healthier if they got frequent messages of validation. But what these well-intentioned folks probably haven’t considered is that when we heap praises upon people for what they are as opposed to what they do, we do them a great disservice insofar as developing a healthy sense of self-worth is concerned. The quickest way to set a young person on the wrong path as far as self-appraisal is concerned is to overly recognize, praise, or otherwise reinforce the fact that he has talents, abilities, or other natural, appealing, endowments (e.g., good looks, intelligence, charm, etc.) and to fail to afford a higher degree of recognition for how he might have used those natural gifts for the betterment of all.
Thank you Switch for that psychological insight. I am not sure who you are speaking about? Ted, Allen, Hank or yourself? I would think the insight might apply to anyone, but in much smaller degrees than would warrant psychotic or neurosis medical attention. I am glad you tell us what you think of people who have a different opinion than yours.
Those who set forth to put opinions which disturb people are often named disturbed themselves. I would not call you Switch disturbed, but your comments are disturbing but are worthy of a little consideration. thanks – hank
To switch: Is this the Dr. Simon you referred to?
No, that is actually Depok Chopra an adherent of Adveta Vedanta and is someone that Ted, Mayor Green, and yourself could benefit greatly by reading and understanding his teachings. This might help Ted with his critical thinking analysis by quieting his mind and the abatement of thought so that he can see the forest through the trees, and Green and yourself to embrace the law of commonality and not be so attached to your hell bent illusory polar differences I think there was a blog poster on here that shares many of the philosophical views of Depok Chopra not too long ago called Depok Chop Meat. Anyhow, good luck in your quest for the opposite of whatever Allen Green does and its contrary path, don’t waste too much time wandering before coming back to the fork in the road where you made the wrong turn, but at the end of the day you have all the time in the world to exhaust your wandering.
Hey Switch, from Hank. Don’t leave me out in the dark. What Dr. Simon are you thinking of. Give me a chance to not wander around,, let me catch up to you. Tell me, what Dr. Simon were you referring to? –hank
He has three PHD’s in Psychology, a clinical psychologist, and best selling author on the subject of manipulative personalities.
Frankly a lot of this is way over my head but after seeing Hanks letter on the C/M’s read file I have to wonder what he will blog about now that he will not longer post any info from anonymous sources.
Seems to a dummy like me that Ted and Hank have relied heavily on all of the anonymous information for quite some time.
Sounds like they gobbled up all the chocolate and are now complaining about a stomach ache.
Very profound observation on hypocrisy weedhopper!
to Knows all the Dirt from hank springer. I am not the editor of this blog which we are right now communicating on. By blog, http://www.popdradiolog.com has had very little comments, because little have been submitted to. The place to be for political comments is right here.
I respond to the issues contain in comments on this blog, but after considering all the anonymous comments on this web site blog, I find a lot of problems with the public perspective which these comments might provoke.
Here are list of the most current comments on my web site, http://www.popdradiolog.com
• admin on POFD Pension Liabilities
• Drew Bastian on POFD Pension Liabilities
• admin onNoftall,Nelan,Gardners,Pike
• Newton White on Renovations of the YMCA
• Bob Pohlmann onNoftall,Nelan,Gardners,Pike
• admin onNoftall,Nelan,Gardners,Pike
• admin on Renovations of the YMCA
• admin onNoftall,Nelan,Gardners,Pike
• b. reed on Renovations of the YMCA
• admin on Renovations of the YMCA
as of 347 pm 10 31 14 at http://www.popodradiolog.com
To switch from Hank. I will have no trouble going back to the fork in the road from which I may have erred. No problem at all. I have done it many times, and maybe that is why you feel you can’t trust me. For me, it is what it is at the time. May have been different in the past, and may be different in the future, but I live in the present and try to judge the present with what I know now and have experienced in the past. If that sounds egotistical so be it. Thanks for your comments Switch. — hank
I thought there were multiple warring factions in Utilities and Works each willing to leak on the other ?
How old is Henry Springer ? After reading his last few emails to the manager all I can say is WHAT?
I hope for his sake dementia is not setting in
Anonymous Henry Springer is around 100 years old and is a retired sumo wrestler.
Hank to Switch, Thank you Switch for finally telling us the name of the Psychiatrist you are referring to:
….Simon’s first book, In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People, deals withmanipulation. Simon discusses the tactics manipulators use to deceive and get the better of others. The book also offers tips on how to avoid being victimized and how to be more empowered in any relationship.
His latest book, Character Disturbance: the Phenomenon of Our Age, attempts to provide an in-depth, but readily understandable explanation of the most difficult and problematic personalities a person is likely to encounter, as well as practical ways to keep from being victimized by them. The book also advances the perspective that the phenomenon of “neurosis”, about which most traditional psychological frameworks are concerned and which was largely an outgrowth of the highly repressive Victorian culture, has faded in both prevalence and intensity in modern times. It asserts that instead, the necessary issue of greater social concern in an era of permissiveness and entitlement is character disorder, which manifests itself not so much in bizarre psychosomatic symptoms, but rather in distorted thinking patterns, problematic attitudes, and irresponsible behaviors, and Simon asserts further that these can neither be adequately understood, nor effectively dealt with, via traditional approaches. ….
Read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_K._Simon
comment by Hank Springer — Well Switch you are applying the personality A bomb to someone, and I think I know who you have in mind. I would not apply such an A Bomb ad hominem attack even on Mayor Green. But I want to point out, that among governmental nations which want to quiet down the dissenters or may I call them activists, the modus operandi is to attack the style, and manor of the dissenter. One way to avoid the issues being presented by dissenters is to caution that their ideas will lead to caos and civil unrest. Switch you make an ad hominem attack on someone, but use psychological theory from a learned man, but don’t confront the issues in someone’s comments. You not only have not been clear about whom you are talking about, but it took a while even to find out whom you were quoting.
Considering all things, you have not made any advancement for us confronting the issues the city council has had to consider and will be considering. You have made someone, but not named him, the issue.
I have named Mayor Green and the former city managers Parker and Kisela as being and/or contributing to the problems of Port Orange City Council. Parker and Kisela were in general gentlemen, and at times Green is arrogant and not forthcoming in his real agenda. Sometimes Noftall can be abrasive, and certainly he is frank and to the point. There has been a lot of attacking of personalities in comments, and it takes away from the issues.
It has always been that way from the ancient Roman times when the phrase ad hominem label was invented. It will always be that way. It is good for all of us to remember that it is a feint from not taking on the issues in an honest way. You sir or madam, named Switch, are far from the issues, and I think it is best that we close the item for discussion which you have brought up. Thank you for letting us see how some people think and allowing me the opportunity to respond to you. —- hank
From Hank. Some bloggers have wondered how old I am. I am 77 yrs. old, very opinionated, cock sure of myself that I can change my opinion any time I want to and have experiences of not being a team player, and have had resulting consequences in my professional career. Just about everything about me hangs out on my web site. I am retired from the New York State Police, and previous to that I had been the executive officer of 213 man police department , the Long Island State Parkway Police which went out of existence by New York legislation which reacted to police union problem. Those were hard times for all of us and had brought me useful experiences.
I am very happy that we have dissenters voicing their opinion about Port Orange Government. It was at least back around 2007 or previously that I knew we needed change in city government, but I did not have the facts nor information. But I sensed something was wrong with a lack of transparency and both Green and Steindoerfer were upset with me questioning the integrity of the people’s city council. I am glad Ted Noftall showed up to get at the facts, and others joined him in the quest to get at the facts.
The facts have been exposed. And the usual reaction is to attack and kill the messingers of the truth.
Two of the anonymous bloggers suggested that they don’t know who the hell I am. Damn, I understand, you have to know who I am to make ad hominem attacks. But being accused of coming down with dementia is the most gentlest personality attack one could make of me. Thank you all you anonymous bloggers. I am still interested in your comments. — hank
In reply to those who seem to think you are out of touch, or think they have to give you psychological advice, a very good book to check out is ” IF YOU MEET THE BUDDA ON THE ROAD, KILL HIM By Sheldon Copp.
Mike Sheridan, M.S.
Anonymous how about – For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
All who work (enslaved) to this plantation system are subject to being scapegoated. Owners know how to groom young man who fall into their trappings when needed. I believe Mr. Noftall has been shining a laser beam on this crisis. Their target now is Ford also a light in the darkness. United we stand, divided we fall too.
Ted has lost all credibility this past week. His comments and thoughts completely contradict what he has professed to stand for.
The only true heros we still seem to have are the Gardners. Even I disagree with them at times, but they don’t waiver and they did post ole Two Faced Ted up.
I think there have been many unsung heroes in the past and there still are many among present city employees. So many go under the radar because they do not pander to the mayor or become the next demigod’s bitch, or facilitate the scapegoating of blacklisted employees. In many cases they themselves are blacklisted by city hall via the Dias..
Remember, according to all these letters that have been flooding the city manager’s office from ex-cops, ex-city administrators,, homeowner association presidents, and barfly cronies Warren Pike was the sole orchestrator and heroic leader of all the hurricane preparation and response before, during, and after the 2004 hurricanes. These letters also indicate that he knows more about drainage, flooding, and utilities than anyone in the history of Port Orange. During the 2004 hurricane season, Richard Woodman was responsible for far more than Warren Pike was, and has probably forgotten more about drainage, utilities, and hurricane response than Warren has ever known.
Remember the Woodman Reports? I think there should be a bigger push to rehire Woody as a consultant based upon his demonstrated institutional knowledge. Furthermore there are also quite a few existing employees that have forgotten more about these subjects than Mr. Pike has ever known The only difference is that they are not stepsons of the mayor and do not have a groupie following of crony’s and merry men.
I like the idea of procuring Woody as a consultant regarding many of these public works and public utility issues. In addition to possessing much more institutional knowledge than Pike, Woody comes with some other positive benefits. He is not a thief, he has never taken a kickback from contractors or politicians, he doesn’t hob nob with politicians and associate with special interest and crony’s, doesn’t mobilize his forces in honky tonk bars, and he doesn’t come with a self entitled price tag. If Ted Noftall would have placed as much emphasis on honoring and rewarding a truly honorable scapegoated employee he would be in a much better light right now with those who truly stand for transparency and open governance.
The other benefit is that Woody was extremely rude to his fellow employees and allowed the “Rob” issue to implode. Yes, please hire him as a consultant. This is a great idea!
Yes, Woody was grumpy and could sometimes be rude and devoid of political correctness, but he was impeccably honest and knew his shit. I don’t see him buying rounds of drinks at the Hidden Treasures surrounded by adoring groupies, cronies, and merry men. The consulting engineers and contractors that might ordinarily get over on the city would not write a letter of recommendation because Woody always policed and scrutinized them and made sure they earned what the city was paying them. They never gave him any freebies because he would have rejected them and not compromised himself. His subordinates were not his merry men because he did not have that kind of informal relationship with them. He was not the mayor’s step son, or the life of the after work parties because if he were there would have been a dozen letters flooding the cm’s email supporting him and Ted Noftall would be advocating for someone like him instead of someone that contradicts what Noftall purports to uphold.
There are other sides to the story. He was human with both strengths and weaknesses. However, I think it is not authentic to portray him or anyone else as so good as to walk on water.
Go talk to his former employees under him. Not all of them were fans of his management style. In addition, many thought he was vacant by spending lots of time out at the lakes.
Concerned256, are you one of the ass kissers? I think so……..
You would be wrong.
But is Okay for the Mayor to be extremely rude to taxpayers?????
Floki – I have seen only about eight letters in support of Pike in the managers email files – that’s not a flood. But I think I have seen 10 times that many in opposition to rehiring Pike in comments on this blogging site.
It is hard to believe that Harden would not do his homework and read all the Police transcripts and listen to the Police audio tapes on Pike’s criminal investigation before he considered him as suitable to rehire.
It is interesting that out of all the city employees that were fired or forced to resign in the past few years only Warren Pike case was the result of a Police investigation
Onlooker On, how about Jim Miller and John Diamond they were both fired after a police investigation.
Tron – Are you suggesting that the city should rehire Miller and Diamond in addition to Pike. If you are then I suggest we should also rehire all the other employees that were recently terminated but not involved in a Police investigation.
It would not be fair for the city to rehire only those that were fired as a result of criminal investigations and not the others.
No Onlooker I am not suggesting that. What I am saying what is good for the goose is good for the gander, and if Ted Noftall and others are so hell bent about hiring Warren back than this may come with either the baggage of rehiring Jim Miller, John Diamond, Roger Smith, Tom Cinefro, et al or dealing with a plethora of civil lawsuits. The philosophical question is what differentiate him and makes him so much better than the others to be the recipient of unmitigated clemency while they remain Ted Noftall’s post children for accountability?
concerned256, you must be one of the ass kissers of the late city managers
ah come on anonymous. so what if concerned 256 is an ass kisser. is that the best reply you can come up with? — hank
Although it’s quite flattering, please quit fighting over me girls. I have other adoring fans to concern myself with. Up Up and away!!
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Workplace revenge refers to the general action of purposeful retaliation within the workplace in an attempt to seek justice. Acts of revenge in the workplace are viewed by the retaliator as a defensive act in response to the offender’s unwarranted and unfair actions. When the offender makes the first move that is viewed by an affected colleague as unjust, the victim will often feel a need for retaliation.
Revenge is defined as the infliction of harm in return for perceived wrong. Workplace revenge is often initially considered a violent act taking place between colleagues within an organization. However, this type of revenge within an organization is often nonviolent and legal. Workplace revenge often consists of silent and non-confrontational acts that directly affect the other person. Some examples include decisions to work more slowly, refusals to help the colleague, or ignoring tasks set forth by the offender.
When an employee thinks his manager has not effectively handled unjust acts, he may feel the need to take matters into his own hands. Furthermore, many employees shy away from using the voice strategy to bring unjust acts to the attention of their superiors in fear or retaliation from either the manager or the organization as a whole. It can be deemed necessary by the victim of the initial unjust act to retaliate with either one act of revenge or several acts in order to create a level playing field. Forms of confrontational revenge include reporting the offender’s mistakes to a superior (beyond the initial unjust act) in an attempt to ruin the offender’s reputation, quitting, or getting others fired. In general, workplace revenge is about justice, restoring the balance of what is, or what is perceived as, fair. Employees that engage in acts of workplace revenge are not unprofessional or out of control employees seeking a major vengeance against the company, but rather the victims of interpersonal conflicts within the organization who are compelled to seek justice by their own means.
2 Retaliation: work related vs. social
3 Retaliation as a form of justice
4 Revenge as a coping strategy
5 See also
Retaliation within an organization, specifically between colleagues, rarely impacts the organization significantly. However, the activity of revenge has a direct correlation with de-motivating employees as well as affecting productivity, therefore affecting the company’s bottom line. It is also an indicator that there is a problem that could possibly grow from a disagreement between two employees (whether confrontational or not) to a drop in retention rates and loss of otherwise productive employees.
For every eight employees who see themselves as the targets of revenge, one is likely to exit the organization entirely. One way to combat revenge within the organization is to implement exit interviews. This is a way that companies can gain true, raw knowledge of what is really taking place within the organization, often because the exiting employee is no longer censored by a fear of possible organization retaliation.
Retaliation: work related vs. social
Acts of retaliation within an organization can be categorized in two ways: work related retaliation and social retaliation. “Work retaliation victimization involves adverse work-related actions that have the purpose or effect of negatively altering the target’s job and that are intended by the instigator or perceived by the target to be a reprisal for the target’s behavior.” This categorization of workplace revenge concerns work-related actions that are often tangible, formal, and documented in employment records. Examples include termination, demotion, poor performance appraisal, and cutting hours. These are actions by which a victim may feel the need to seek justice.
On the other hand, “social retaliation victimization involves antisocial behaviors that have the purpose or effect of negatively altering the target’s interpersonal relations with other organizational members and that are intended by the instigator or perceived by the target to be a reprisal for the target’s behavior.” This type of retaliatory action refers to behaviors between members of an organization, both verbal and nonverbal, that often go undocumented. Examples of this type include harassment, insulting, blame, threats, or the “silent treatment.” These acts of workplace revenge have the purpose of negatively altering the victim’s interpersonal relations with other organizational members as well as potentially affecting work productivity.
Retaliation as a form of justice
Main article: Organizational justice
In an attempt to seek justice as a response to what is perceived as an unfair act, an employee will often seek justice. The concept of justice has been defined in three categories of justice:
distributive justice concerns the outcome of allocation, based on equity, equality or need. An example of this is the perceived fairness of distribution of tasks within an organization.
procedural justice is the way in which individuals perceive the fairness of procedures that result from a decision process within an organization. An example would include ample advance notice of job related changes directly affecting the employee.
interactional justice is the representation of behaviors associated with fairness of treatment by members within an organization, whether the interaction is between superiors to subordinates or among members of similar status.
There are forms of revenge that an individual may take against the organization as a whole, including theft, vandalism, or “milking the time clock.” However, most kinds of workplace revenge are at the interactional level, between colleagues at a comparable level, or between an employee and manager. Revenge at this level is because it provides ample ground for personal violations of interpersonal exchanges: broken promises, insults, false accusations, and other misunderstandings.
Revenge as a coping strategy
The two common responses to one’s unjust behavior are forgiveness and revenge. When one perceives he has been the victim of unjust behavior, he will evaluate the situation and select the appropriate coping response for the negative experience. If the victim views the situation with anger and resentment, he chooses revenge as the next necessary step. On the opposite side, if the victim is able to let go of the negative emotions attached to the circumstances, he will choose forgiveness. Individuals are more likely to forgive a transgressor if they avoid holding the transgressor accountable for the offense and if the transgressor is apologetic.
I message from the Gulf Coast
It is time for everyone to realize the citizen activists who participate regularly on this website got exactly what they wanted… It is also time for everyone to realize the City Council got exactly what they wanted…and that is Greg Kisella’s job and as well as every other department head who left. It is also time for the citizens of Port Orange to ask “how much money is this going to cost us now because we have to replace all of this positions?” What qualified people would ever be interested in positions within a DISorganization such as this? Have we all not had enough of these disruptive and negative citizens and dysfunctional council? We had some very good people in these leadership positions and they were successfully ran off by the 1% of malcontents and a Council who allowed it. We want the citizen activists to do the metrics on the internal knowledge that was lost and the cost it will take to regain / rebuild that institutional knowledge. When will the 99% recognize the costs associated with the leave pay outs, the recruitment, and time lost chasing shadows? Now you have to deal with Ted Noftal, who apparently is a turncoat. Good luck, Port Orange. You are the laughing stock of the County and State.
If this is the real Mr. Kisela…….Can you please explain all the faulty contracts Mrs. Robert’s is spending my tax dollars to rewrite that you screwed up?? I can make a list a mile long and possible fraud charges that were not pursued! Watch yourself. Your ass needs to stay outta here or I’m coming there. Been looking for a trip. Fair warning Mr. Kisela.
OMG….You People really must not do anything but follow gossip. OK…..,Here is the big question???? MR.WOODMAN, What is your take on Mr. Pike?? Are you willing to be blacklisted from this blog to tell the truth?? I feel like I might know your answer, however, I would like you to settle this issue due to the fact so many respect your opinion. Hey …Do ya wanna go have a beer at Pike’s bar tomorrow? I’d like to meet ya again.HEHEHE I’ll pick ya up.
re this supposed post from Greg Kisela…..forgotten now how to spell your own last name “Greg”?……things really are going down hill fast for you son….
quote from “Greg” post below:
“It is also time for everyone to realize the City Council got exactly what they wanted…and that is Greg Kisella’s job and as well as every other department head who left. It is also time for the citizens of Port Orange to ask “how much money is this going to cost us now because we have to replace all of this positions?”
Thoughts posters? Think someone is attempting to further stir the pot….if you really are a defender of GK, might want to stop while you are ahead…..the poor man already has enough trouble trying to rehabilitate his rep…really in tatters after Harden’s very honest eval on the flood mitigation project failure…..