“Oh man … that was way too easy. Way too easy.” — “Maybe we should have asked for a bit more.”
$2,000,000 for Cypress Head vs. $ ? To Flooded Neighborhoods
BUDGETARY CONSTRAINTS FOR FLOOD AREA RESIDENTS BUT ESTIMATED $2,000,000 FOR CYPRESS HEAD
- A MONEY PIT AMENITY
At the Cypress Head Renovation meeting there were a lot of tanned folks that one rarely sees at a regular council meeting.
When the simple majority voted for the estimated $2 million renovation, several of the comments made directly behind me, made my blood boil.
To paraphrase and I cannot attribute:
> “Oh man … that was way too easy. Way too easy.”
> “Maybe we should have asked for a bit more.”
With little or no effort – $2,000,000 for Cypress Head.
BUDGETARY CONSTRAINTS AND MORE MEETINGS FOR FLOOD AREA RESIDENTS
What do flooded residents get? More meetings.
Reschedule the est. $2 million dollar renovation of Cypress Head Golf Course and allocate those funds to helping the residents of the East side of Port Orange now.
Those that are experiencing repeated flooding in their neighborhoods.
Cypress Head can wait another year.
It’s the right thing to do.
Tom [Tommy] Menocal
Port Orange, FL
g: 414.367.4140 – GoogleVoice#
31 thoughts on ““Oh man … that was way too easy. Way too easy.” — “Maybe we should have asked for a bit more.””
Read my lips…ICI
When you actually sit down and think about this situation it is truly disgusting. Where are the priorities here? Taxpayers homes flooding vs suntanned old farts playing golf No one in their right mind should move to such a city. Thank you again Tom Menocal for pointing out the idiocy of our city government.
Have seen on the news that two similar type subdivision golf courses have closed down in the Orlando area.
It is clear to this citizen that Cypress Head is far from a moneymaker, and cannot even tread water and break even. The Kemper Sports management company is raping the city for their management fees and they are full of excuses ( usually weather related ) for a lack of revenue. The clubhouse / food portion is a total loser.
So if it’s so clear to me, why doesn’t the Council see it ? How much more will be spent on this losing proposition in the future ?
With all of the wonderful variety of places to eat in Port Orange who would want to spend money at the restaurant on the golf course, except perhaps the mayor or lizard Lance. What a waste of taxpayers money.
You are correct mad scientist. I posted a report of once eating at the restaurant. 10 golfers were there, loud. One golfer was among the vacant tables swinging 2 golf clubs around his shoulders and head as a form of exercise. I was afraid if he let go I and my daughter would be hit by one of those golf clubs. The food was ok, but the ambience was like a sports club. Alas I am not a golfer and to tell you by bias, my father hate golfers and I do to having worked as a policeman in Bethpage State Park which had 5 golf courses including a black course. Did you read my story on how I revealed a golfer who had criminally claimed a watch at the lost and found, which did not belong to him? I have my biases so sorry but although my two sons love the Cyrpess Golf Course, and why shouldn’t they because it is so cheap, I do not care for the city to put out any more money for that losing financial adventure. Do we always have to construct even in losing entities? — hank
Will the council again be using the city’s water account to fund the $2 million in improvements on the golf course?
There are a lot of things to consider. First, the allocation is not $2 million. It is currently set at $1.25 million and is still up for discussion. The course is 5 years over due for renovation. If not renovated soon it will become a rapidly sinking ship. Lastly, put into perspective the taxes that are paid by Cypress Head residents with homes adjoining the course. Homes on that golf course pay much higher taxes than many because there homes are assessed an additional $15K-$25K for being in a Golf Course community. Those higher taxes go to supplement a lot of programs and infrastructure all over the City of Port Orange. Like it or not, the Cypress Head community and golf course has brought of tremendous amount of positive tax revenue into Port Orange, with very little negative impacts on the community. Everyone better think this one through very carefully.
Big Picture are you telling us that people buy homes with more taxes on them because they want to play golf at the golf course? But Cypress Head residents alone cannot support a restaurant and golf course? Maybe Cypress Head residents should be urged to play golf every day and to eat at the restaurant 2 times a day so that we can keep their tax revenue up. —hmm? Perhaps we should be taxing Cypress Head residents an additional tax because we are trying to maintain the golf course there. I sure am glad I do not have a golf course in my community. That was a good idea by the developer at one time, was it not? Mayor Green would like to take the Homestead Act exemption away from them. Now that’s an idea. — hank
Add the golfers in their high and dry homes in Cypress Head to the growing list of rich old white folks with their hand out for a taxpayer subsidy. First it was the down and out folks in the private enclave of Crane lakes in need of a taxpayer subsidized traffic light so as not to bother Scrooge McBecks,
And now we have the needy golfers trying to make ends meet in in their equally high and dry homes in Cypress Head in need of subsidized golf. Council needs to level with city residents. Are they running a no frills municipal golf course or a country club for the residents of Cypress Head. . If it is a municipal golf course why is there no signage to that effect. If it is municipal golf course why are they paying Kemper a $90,000 annual concierge fee.
This proposed expenditure is based on nothing more than the opinions of the losers they have running the golf course, and is supported by a handful of annual pass holders looking to play golf for a price less than what it takes to operate a golf course. That is called subsidized golf.
This proposal is an insult to the 99 % of city residents who do not play golf to say nothing of the increasing number of residents in need of a true blue bona-fide expenditure called flood prevention.
Hank to Not what it seems: I mostly agree with you.
Why hasn’t anyone questioned where all the $2 per round charges have been spent? Why isn’t this being watched more closely so that if and when the golf course needs work again the R&R fund is in place to pay for it off the proceeds of the golf that was played NOT on the debt and cost of the general taxpayer. Understand the money for this is coming from a utility loan pool that will now not be available to pay for capital improvements in the water and sewer system, can you say water rate increase?
Does the city really to be in the golf course business ? Is it a winner or a loser or at best a break even deal proposition? Should the city run the place and cut this Kemper Sports Managemet out ?
They need to really evaluate this long term and focus on the big picture.
As a concerned citizen / taxpayer, I say it’s time to get out now. EverytimeI hear the management from Kemper speak they always use weather as an excuse for reduced revenues. The clubhouse restaurant has never turned a profit and likely never will.
After all is said-and-done, the most important information at the flooding workshop was this:
Due to budget [cuts, constraints], maintenance of the drainage system almost came to a halt.
No maintenance = Flooding
It’s not a self cleaning, self maintaining drainage system.
Again, the right thing to do is allocate the est. $2,000,000 Cypress Head Golf Course renovation to Drainage System Maintenance.
Cypress Head can wait.
Tom [Tommy] Menocal
The Cypress Head Golf Course renovations and new drainage projects are not mutually exclusive.
The Cypress Head renovations are to be financed with internal borrowing, and the loan will be repaid from future golf course revenues.
Whether the golf course is renovated or not has no impact on drainage projects or drainage maintenance.
I fell and I can’t get up!
Future golf revenues ? Pretty optimistic on that one.
What do you care? After you collect your $3,000 a week and shag your old ass back to south Florida in six months to finish the woodwork on your Victorian mansion you can give two shits about what happens to the future of Port Orange. Can you say subsidization project job? I knew you could!
I think Harden shot his load and exhausted his resources. It seems that Ted Noftall has respectfully called his bluff and painted him into a corner on the QLHA berm issue. Harden has no skin in the game, and he has shamelessly used employees with uncertain futures to funnel as much information to him to create the illusion of transparency. He himself is ignorant of anything technical and is nothing more than an obfuscating courier.
Now that he has shot his self serving load he will revert to an angry old self serving man and play the I will not dignify this with an answer mode. The indignity of you to question my integrity strategy will be his future mantra. His stoic façade will probably get him through the next six months because he realizes the deficit of critical thinking or resolve to proactive and intelligent action of our city officials, not to mention the pathological climate of denial that they are all under the spell of. He will play this to the hilt until he finishes his project job. I would add that he will laugh all the way to the bank, but this dude has such flat effect I do not think he has a sense of humor.
To Tom Tom from Hank: Wow, you must know than what I see. You wrote “he has shamelessly used employees with uncertain futures to funnel as much information to him to create the illusion of transparency”. I don’t see it that way. Asking employees to explain to him what happened during a “mistake” (if you allow) has no shame attached to it. It is part of the communication process to fix the mistakes for the future. Of course the result of such communication might show some accountability concerns, and perhaps Tom Tom that is what you fear most? I don’t understand your position on Harden. Perhaps you have more info that you are not sharing with us? — hank
Partial truth does not constitute truth Hank.
He’s just sore because he didn’t get the Utilities director job.
Who did get the job Fred?
Peg Leg is not sure yet. He is still waiting to see which but he will start smooching. Looks like he will now have to will have to hold off until they find a new rump to plant a kiss on.
Yes, I am looking for a new hiney to kiss!
Unless old Peg-Leg kept some pretty good ‘get out of jail cards’ which we all know he was not smart enough to do his days are numbered no matter how many hinny’s he finds to kiss now that Green has decided he is not going to protect him in the missing berm caper.
Mr Harden existing golf revenues are unable to pay the existing debt.
How are future golf revenues going to pay the new debt plus the existing debt that is going to be added together ?
As for your explanation that spending money on golf course renovations will not have any effect on flood control; expenditures I have to ask — assuming you are not going to call what you spend on the golf course a flood control expenditure which the Mayor would do in a heartbeat, which is it – is Port Orange’s supply of money limitless or have you found a way to spend the same dollar twice ?
to Tom Tom: you are absolutely correct. partial truth is one of the mechanisms used to conceal the real, whole truth. Where has Harden given only partial truth, knowing more to the answers that he does not reveal?
Hank, I am not questioning your intentions at this point but I am questioning your understanding. I think TomTom is not alone, but is one of many that is in a position to question your understanding and the intent of certain other individuals, but as myself he does not necessarily question your intent. At the end of the day your intent may be impeccable but if it’s devoid of right understanding it is no more than an illusion. On the other side you may be fortunate enough to be in a position to have right understanding served up to you on a platter, but if your intent is wrong than all you have is madness. You must have right understanding and right intent.
The first step of the eightfold path is Right Understanding or Right View.
This is a significant step on the path as it relates to seeing the world and everything in it as it really is, not as we believe it to be or want it to be. Just as you may read the directions on a map, and then make the journey, studying, reading and examining the information is important, but only the preparation for the journey. At a deeper level, direct personal experience will then lead us to Right Understanding.
In his book “Old Path, White Clouds” , Thich Nhat Hanh tells the story of the Buddha. The Buddha says “my teaching is not a dogma or a doctrine, but no doubt some people will take it as such.” The Buddha goes on to say “I must state clearly that my teaching is a method to experience reality and not reality itself, just as a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon itself. A thinking person makes use of the finger to see the moon. A person who only looks at the finger and mistakes it for the moon will never see the real moon.”
Knowing reality is of very little value if we don’t put it to personal use in our lives.
The second step on the Eightfold Path is Right Intent. This is the step where we become committed to the path. Right Understanding shows us what life really is and what life’s problems are composed of, Right Intent urges us to decide what our heart wants.
Right Intent must come from the heart and involves recognizing the equality of all life and compassion for all that life, beginning with yourself.
Right Intent means persistence and a passion for the journey. Setting out to climb a high mountain means you must understand the lay of the land and the pitfalls, the other team members, and the equipment you need. This is similar to Right Understanding. But you will only climb the mountain if you really want to and have a passion for the climb. This is Right Intent. The mountain we climb here is our journey through life.
To summarize, Right Understanding will eliminate ignorance. With Right Intent and correct understanding, we then remove desire, which in turn causes the suffering defined in the Four Noble Truths.
Gautama is said to have developed supramundane abilities including: a painless birth conceived without intercourse; no need for sleep, food, medicine, or bathing, although engaging in such “in conformity with the world”; omniscience, and the ability to “suppress karma”.
More at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha
Sid, you wrote: “At the end of the day your intent may be impeccable but if it’s devoid of right understanding it is no more than an illusion”
I wonder if all of our reality is nothing but an illusion, but the only reality we have.
Sid, you wrote: “Right Intent must come from the heart and involves recognizing the equality of all life and compassion for all that life, beginning with yourself.”
I do not recognize the equality of life just as you do not recognize the equality of understanding between you and me. Compassion is ok if not used to justify reasoning and is not primary to self preservation.
That’s what I think at the present time, but my thinking could change. And I could be wrong. Thanks Sid.
Ask yourself who on Council is supporting this insane new loan when monthly payments cannot even be made on the old loan. For sure Green and his mini -me Burnette will vote yes. Drew has to much common sense to vote for it. Bob has told us he is a fiscal conservative more times than Sonya told us she was a CPA if that is possible. That leaves Scott as the swing vote or does it ? .
If it means some kind of construction the Mayor approves.