Some People Are More Equal Than Others
Before every meeting of the Port Orange City Council, the City Clerk reads the following words:
“The City Council of the City of Port Orange is committed to maintaining civility in public and political discourse and expects the public to do the same.”
While I suppose the definition of “civility” can be debated somewhat, the Mayor has made it clear that he does not like the word “crap” used in Council meetings. So it was more than a little shocking when the obviously enraged Mayor told Ted Noftall to “get your SHIT straight!” Even more shocking than his totally uncivil outburst was that it came in response to a man who obviously had his facts straight and who is never uncivil. Then the Mayor made a big point of refusing to apologize. Guess he’s just more equal than the rest of us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcfelfhHyO4?rel=0
This might all be funny, or of little importance, if it stopped with a few four-letter words blurted out in public–but it goes much deeper. The City officials who write other laws are free to break them as well. They can write laws telling us how much we get taxed for drainage maintenance and then decide to spend the money any way they choose. They can write laws telling us how much we get charged for water and then spend that money on a golf course. And now the talk is of raising both drainage and water fees. I wish I was as equal as them.
The Mayor does not have the word “decorum” in his country vocabulary. He has NEVER been one to treat the citizens with respect nor the City Councilmen at meetings. He is very short and curt. His “apology” to others and stating to all but not Mr Noftall was totally within his normal character yet uncalled for. Thankfully, we only have a few more months to endure this type of behavior.
They say the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, so why on earth would anyone cast a ballot for Lance Green – the Mayor’s son ? It’s time for the Green regime to end.
The behavior of the Mayor is unacceptable. It has been for many years. He is nothing more than a bully that only wants things his way. It’s time for the rest of Council to grow a pair and make a motion to have him removed. He has bullied them for long enough. His comment of apology to the audience and not the citizen that he attacked is enough in my mind for an ethics violation if not a sanity check. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Could we handle 4 more years of this type of behavior? Shame on council for not calling Mr Mayor on his adolescent behavior.
Mayor Green is potty mouth bully intent on shouting down any criticism of his intention give away taxpayer assets to his good friend BUDDY.
Considering his behavior the rules of procedure he insists on having read at the start of every council meeting are as farcical as they are hypocritical
WHAT IS GOING HERE IS UN-BELIEVABLE
Manager Johansson , Mayor Green and Councilman Burnette have been working on a secret proposal that will easily be the sweetheart deal of the century for a long time BUDDY of Mayor Green .
First they want to deed the City owned Halifax Drive to BUDDY – in exchange for BUDDYS promise to maintain Halifax Dr as a walkway in the middle of Riverwalk park.
Then they want to deed BUDDY the City owned Cardwell Funeral property that cost taxpayers over $ 800,000 – in exchange for BUDDYS promise to grant the City an easement on that walkway.
To top it all off they want to permit BUDDY to construct a restaurant on property that was intended to be the focal point of Riverwalk park and that is zoned Conservation and Recreation – in exchange for absolutely nothing.
While I wish the Mayors BUDDY and his partners the very best in developing land they own and control, that well wish does not include further financial concessions as I intend representing taxpayer interests in a diligent and zealous manner that has not occurred to date.
If Mayor Green and Councilman Burnett intend to cram and jam this odious deal down taxpayer throats before the election on August 30th they had best get to it
His true colors escaped……Port “Orange Liqueur” anyone…………..
It is becoming obvious that by the time this Riverwalk project is completed one or two of these men sitting on the present city council dais will be going to Jail.
I lived in Chicago for many years and I had seen a steady parade of politicians going to jail for the same type of nonsense that is occurring on this project
Keeping things on a positive note, I would like to thank Ted Noftall for his dedication and untiring effort in representing the average every day citizen and his commitment to an open and transparent government. I think most Port Orange employees, especially those from middle management down appreciate Ted’s commitment to transparency and certainly hope that he is elected as our next mayor. Ted would bring a refreshing climate of honesty and transparency that will cut through the rhetoric and accurately identify true value and stakeholdership. I think special interest and anyone with hidden agendas will rue the day that Ted becomes mayor. On the other hand, people with nothing to hide, and everything to gain from real transparency are looking forward to an honest man like Ted at the helm. We hope that Ted will judiciously change the existing managerial and political paradigm over time, and make Port Orange a truly great city to live and work in for the many, and not just for the few.
This type of behavior from the Mayor is unacceptable.
Boy Ted must have touched a nerve with the Mayor. He acted like he just got caught with his hand stuck in the cookie jar or someone had just stuck a hot poker up his ass.
For anyone to respond like that during a civil conversation he must be guilty of something.
understatement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Riverwalk has been a taxpayer screwing from its inception. No one on Council is looking out for taxpayers. They are all willing participants in the taxpayer screwing to some degree.
Green has shaded every Riverwalk decision in Lacour’s favor for 2 decades as he tries to repay the debt he owes Lacour.
Burnett is in Lacour’s pocket on promises of being the mortgage broker on Lacour’s condos.
Stiltner is in some sort of trance since being elected mumbling over and over that he only wants to see good things looking forward.
Drew is a nice guy but he does not have the confidence to say boo and that brings us to Bob.
Bob is the biggest disappointment of them all. He is smart enough to know what is going on and feckless enough to not go beyond clever sound bites.
Green was caught with his hand in the cookie jar but the nerve Ted struck was in more than Green’s mouth.
Will Ted finally bring back Warren? He has always supported him. Hope he still does.
The Gardners may disagree with you anonymous… https://port-orange.us/open-mouth-insert-foot/ 2014
Dear Ted,
What were you thinking, man…..!!? You’d rehire Warren Pike as Public Works Director?!!
When the editor of this blog took down your recent post in support of that notion he did you a favor. Maybe you can say it was someone else using your name? A foggy mental breakdown? Bad advice from Ernest and Julio? What post?
The reasons for rehiring Pike certainly didn’t sound like the Ted I know:
1. He wasn’t as bad as the rest of the bozos on the bus.
2. Port Orange can’t do any better.
3. He’ll work cheap.
4. He ain’t the man he used to be.
The problems in Port Orange that began to surface in 2012 were a long time in the making and Pike had been around a long time. Saying that someone is the best of the worst under those circumstances is no great praise. Port Orange is, in my opinion, one of the most desirable places to live in Florida (and therefore the nation) so I think we can certainly attract a Director without integrity issues. And, while I think that upper management is often overpaid and usually selected on the wrong set of qualifications I don’t want to hire the “low bidder” as a department head. Finally, I hope Mr Pike is not the man he used to be, but I have yet to see or hear him advocate for honesty and transparency except in so far as it will benefit him.
Anyone else with Pike’s baggage would instantly be criticized heavily by Ted Noftall but I hear you saying in his case that we should hire a competent thief because the only other option is an incompetent thief. We can do better.
Mike and Dianne Gardner
618 Ruth St
Port Orange, FL 32127
386-527-1959 (M)
386-527-1641 (D)
“I haven’t committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law.” Former NYC mayor David Dinkins.
So, if Ted really said those quotes, and felt that way about rehiring Mr Pike, one has to seriously question his judgement for his Mayoral aspirations ?
And who is Ted’s new supporter? The very honorable Bob Pohlmann who wrote reccommendation letter for Warren Pike back in 2014 posted on this sight. Now you see where this is going?
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OMG: Former Councilman Bob Pohlmann Wants to Return Us to The Good Old Days in Port Orange
incoming / October 24, 2014
[Editors note:]
Former City Councilman Pohlmann would like to return the Good O’l Boys club cast of characters to City Hall and start over. If he ever gets elected to the city council again he plans to return Ken Parker, Warren Pike, Roger Smith, Shelly, Burnhart, and several other fired former employees to City Hall and start the taxpayers recent nightmares all over again from the beginning.
Less we forget, this former rogue Public Works Director was fired when the Police found stolen city property including stolen police equipment in his home & garage He is the same person that told his son to go back and burglarize the Public Works facility one more time to return some of the stolen items that the Police were looking for.
With this type of thinking, we now know why Mr. Pohlmann was fired by the voters in the last election. Pohlmann2
warrenPike
Hello Mr. Harden.
.
My name is Bob Pohlmann. I am writing this letter of recommendation for Warren Pike for the position of [Port Orange] Director of Public Works.
I have know Warren on many levels for the past 30 years. First and foremost I know Warren from the 9 years I served as a member of the Port Orange City Council. I can tell you there is not an employee who knew more about the entire city operations than Warren. His institutional knowledge of the city would be of immense benefit to our citizens. He was, and would be, the go to person to get any job accomplished. I have personally witnessed Warren complete tasks in short order. A tree falls across a roadway on any day, night or day, and Warren has a crew there getting it off the roadway. I have seen bags of concrete fall off trucks just before rain storms and Warren has it removed before the rain comes. There might be an emergency hurricane approaching and Warren has not only his crew ready to spring into action, but also all the local contractors and their heavy equipment ready to remove debris from roadways to allow emergency vehicles the ability to pass through. Ask any citizen in Port Orange who lived here during the 2004 hurricanes what kind of job Warren and his crew did clearing the streets. Warren has saved the city millions of dollars in the past by his quick actions. His paperwork to FEMA in 2004 allowed the city to be reimbursed for their costs and contractors were paid immediately. There are no Public Works Directors in Volusia County who can match his record. [You got that right ]
Aside from providing an outstanding service to our citizens, the loyalty he commands from the Public Works employees is like nothing I have ever seen before. I personally know many of the employees who work there. The morale was at its peak when Warren was the director.
His knowledge of the roadway system, the sewer systems, drainage canals, vehicle maintenance, public safety equipment, is unmatched by anyone.
The bottom line is Warren provided a tremendous service to the entire city operation and most importantly to all the citizens of Port Orange. We were very fortunate to have his services for a long time and he played a key role in developing the city to what we have today.
I would, without a doubt, highly recommend the City of Port Orange retain his services as Director of Public Works. [ But don’t give him any keys ]
Sincerely,
Bob Pohlmann
Wow Mr or Ms Really you must really know something the rest of us do not. You need to really tell us exactly how Bob Pohlmann’s endorsement of Ted For Mayor gets him one inch closer to putting the old band back together
A band that was sustained by and benefited, not Pohlmann but rather our long serving back room developer friendly Mayor.
Based on public statements Bob Pohlmann made, his endorsement was to confirm the veracity of my argument that during his time on Council Mayor Green and Manager Parker routinely kept Council in the dark as regards the back room deals they were hatching.
Deals like the near $ 300,000 profit the Mayor’s BUDDY made on City’s $ 800,000 Funeral Home purchase from him.
Those back room deals are alive and well and I would wonder if Councilman Ford, Bastain and Stiltner are any better informed than Pohlmann was and if they know that as we speak the City is reviewing an application from the Mayor’s BUDDY to re-zone the point from its Park designation of recreation and conservation to commercial so as to permit commercial development in the middle of Riverside park.
Green and Burnette my insider opponents in this election are in the tank for BUDDY. They are fully committed to cram and jam concessions down city taxpayers throats before the election.
Concessions that are worth millions including his re-zoning request and his request that the City gift him Riverside Drive and the Funeral home property that taxpayers purchased from him for $ 800,000
Green and Burnette’s plan to give away taxpayer assets without just compensation before the election must be stopped.
So Mr or Ms Really when I read your comments in the context of all that is going on I would bet that if we really knew who you are we would find out that you are a paid shill for the back room insiders.
So, when and where is the debate going to be ?
My share of the debate has been ongoing for years — on these blogs, in e-mails to the Manager and at every council meeting from the podium.
If it doesn’t sound like a debate it is because my opponents have been AWOL from that debate.
Ok besides transparency what else is mr noftal about?? Oh and is this place so regulated that even people who disagree still get their opinion posted??
The only chance common folk have for fair treatment is if Ted can pull Port Orange out of the good old boy cesspool Green has created.
So you are indeed a con man to be asking what Ted Noftall stands for besides transparency.
Ted has disclosed 10 times as many positions as has his 2 opponents.
So Mr. Con man tell us why you have no similar questions for his opponents ?
Thank God Mayor Green’s dynasty is coming to and end. Now that he has nothing to lose his true nature is coming out in public. I can’t believe the rest of the council let him get away with using that language to Ted Noftall without one of them saying a word
He is a nasty, nasty man who has made himself wealthy through his back door deals throughout the years. Please taxpayers don’t make the mistake of putting his son Lance the Lizard in his place so that Allen can continue to run things from behind the scenes.
Has this Mayor ever been publicly censured by the Council, State or otherwise ?
Or for years has this type of behavior been tolerated and condoned ?
Concerned citizen you know the answer to your question.
The Mayor has never been censured by Council because they are as ineffectual as he is crude.
I have a question. Do most of the people here really want the city to be better or do they just want to get their own way? I saw that mr noftall called the Mayor a bully. I have read so many times where Mr Noftal himself is a bully and loves to call people names. I remember when Mr Noftal wanted to bring back warren pike and the gardeners and other people on this very site went crazy and did not support him at all. I can tell you one thing I have learned from this sight, well maybe 2 things. First if I don’t agree I will be banned and secondly it does not matter one bit who is mayor, or who is on council, if they do not agree with 5 or 6 of you, they will be degraded and insulted, and be wanted to resign by you. It seems to me the gardeners, noftal, and others want to run the city and say they represent the majority when they actually do not. This will probably never be posted, but at least I tried to express my opinion. And at least I was able to get this off my chest. So to the person running this sight. At least you saw it. It’s so horrible how this sight does not let people disagree with 5 or 6 people within our city. You want open government but not freedom of speech on this sight. That’s ironic.
Con man–I, for one, welcome diverse points of view because I believe strongly that our democratic form of government requires requires debate, even contentious debate, to remain healthy. The type of lock-stepping, rubber-stamping behavior we get from the City Council is indicative only of the closed-door negotiations which spawns it.
Whenever I post on this site I try to tie my comments to some principle of better governance and not simply to the personalities involved. So, when I chose to post the Mayor’s outrageous behavior I tied it to the general notion that the ruling class in Port Orange makes and enforces rules differently for themselves than for the average citizen, and I gave examples. Since you chose to call Ted a bully I challenge you to defend that label, keeping in mind that a bully is someone who uses force, intimidation, cruelty, etc to control others who are weaker. Hard to imagine one citizen, speaking from the cheap seats, limited to three minutes or the length of the Mayor’s patience, and without any power other than reason and persuasion as bullying the five imperial stone faces that sit on the dais supported by their lawyers, staff, and crony developers.
And Con man, I know the administrator of this site and no one has ever been banned for the content of their comments unless they get really carried away with profanity.
Hey Con Man! You whined twice about this site being censored. IT IS NOT! Pros and cons are ALL published. You got your two cents in and have that right. The city does the censoring. Why don’t you complain to them. And you will not be banned from here. Would love to debate your B.S. Please hang around and tell everyone something they don’t already know.
To the person who said that no one has been banned from this site unless they got carried away with profanity. I was banned. I asked a simple question and did not say one curse word. I was banned. Had to find another device to type a response. You may know the man who runs this sight but I was banned without using profanity and that is the truth. I was banned but allowed to chat a couple days later. Oh and as far as calling names Mr noftal has indeed called people names. Peg leg, incompetent and so on. Once again you all left Ted noftal alone when he supported warren pike. And I how did my name get changed to con man??? I posted under anonymous. Maybe things do get changed on this sight. Oh and mr gardener. I was banned, I am not sure how my name got changed here or how you know for a fact that I was not banned without using profanity, maybe we should have open honest chat here.
Dear POE why did you say I whined? And you said if I don’t complain I will not be banned from this sight. Mr gardener said people are not banned from here. What is the truth here???? why is what I say all B.S?????
Poe why are my opinions whining but other opinions are not?? And why are my thoughts B.S.? Your words not mine. If your truly open to openness and opinions it seems unfair to call mine B.S. Do you really want to debate me??? Or do you want to bully me into not posting on this sight? Should I cave in and just agree with mr noftal and say he is the new king? Should I vote for a man who is only saying he wants open government and has not said anything else about what he is running for? Why is mr noftal not saying if he will bring Mr Pike back, a man he supported for so long. Please tell me POE can we debate and have an open and honest conversation or will you just yell and say I am a whiner?????
Your post called out most people on this site and you assumed their intent. I have never heard of anyone being banned from this site. Unfortunately that is well beyond my control. Sounded like B.S. to me and that is obviously my opinion. Even if Mr. Noftall were elected Mayor it would not enable him to hire any City employee. That lies within the duties of the City Manager. So facts such as this further render my opinion of your statements.
Dear Con man or Anonymous or whatever you want to be called, you have been singled out as a little whiner because you come across as a whiny liberal
college kid offended by what is written on some other kids t-shirt. Referring to someone by a nick name may be offensive or in jest but it is not evidence of bullying to anyone other than a whiner
Four eyes ( cause I wear glasses ) Hope I am not bullying myself.
It is abundantly clear that there are certain people that are very nervous that Ted Noftall may very well be the next mayor of Port Orange. Ted has a very strong accounting background and understands the inner workings of municipal finance. He has a long history of following the political and administrative history of Port Orange and has been on target on intuiting many of the adverse outcomes of bad decisions that have been made in the past well in advance of these outcomes and has warned politicians and administrators in the past. He is 100% for the average everyday citizen and abhors pandering to special interest players that have links to city hall. He has evaluated the new city manager and current upper management team and has accesed their competency and commitment or lack thereof to open and transparent governance. He has made clear his opposition to taxpayer subsidized muti-millionaire contractors and developers and his unwillingness as mayor and representative of his constituency to continue to pander to this kind of special interest. Ted will insist on transparency, competency, and integrity from all city employees including the city manager and his senior management team. “All hands on deck”, it looks like there will be a new sheriff-I mean mayor in town and he is not going to tolerate strategic communication or any other kind of rhetoric or excuses. The current administration had better start changing their ways well in advance because anyone trying to shut down open and transparent governance, pandering to special interest, or trying to establish their own administrative dynasty will probably not find much success in this.
I am rarely offended, oh and Poe. I am pretty sure council and mayor are, or can be involved in the hiring of department heads. You might want to look into that. The city manager works directly for council. To the person calling themself 4 eyes. I have never seen a shirt that offended me. I also think if I came on here calling people names it would not be considered in jest, but bullying or offensive. Oh and again what is Mr noftal running for besides transparency? Oh and again Poe, please don’t think I am not telling the truth about being banned for a short term here. I am telling the truth. Someone here says ted has a strong background in accounting and municipal finance. Where did he gain his experience or schooling in these fields? To the person referring to themself as four eyes not sure if you know, but calling someone names In a way to insult them or make them feel bad or to keep them from expressing there views is in fact bullying. Calling your self a name is not.
To Anonymous: You might want to look back in time to the Parker/Shelley incident. Parker was the manager and made his decision and Council spoke out in disagreement but the manager prevailed. Take a look at the rule book. The Mayor nor Council hires or fires below the city manager level. I have never heard of anyone being banned from the site but I will not dispute you on that because I don’t know the facts behind that. I will once again call your statement of the mayor and council hiring department heads B.S. How many department heads did old man Harden hire? Please name one for me that the Mayor hired. I will gladly debate you factually and if something is of my opinion and not a fact I will declare as such. Do your homework and get back to me.
What do you mean by homework? If the council does not have any influence on the city managers decisions why is it that the city manager works directly for council and the mayor? Did you ever think that maybe they publicly disagreed but allowed it to happen? Oh and as far as the Shelley incident, council agreed to let him retire, please check your facts. Council can fire he city manager at anytime. Yes council hires the city manager. They hire him and or her to execute their decisions. The managers in charge of daily operations and if that person does not do their job, the council can fire them. Oh and I got banned for saying, if Ted noftal is such a genius why is it that only a handful of people voted for him. That remark was made after someone on his site called him a genius. I initially asked Hank why he banned me, then I was informed it was not him who ran the site. It was my ignorance at the time thinking Hank springer ran this sight, which I learned and apologized to Hank for. I look forward to factual debates with you. I am actually open to learning new things and open to other opinions.
That’s closer to reality. They can fire the City Manager. Nothing below that. They could have a desire but it is the City Managers decision alone. Who do you think fired Mr. Pike that you spoke of in an earlier post? It was the then City Manager. We have not had success with Managers fulfilling Councils desires. That has been an ongoing issue that they still seem to be in pursuit of. But more so now than in the past and that is a good thing. So I guess we have nothing to debate,nice to have conversed factually. I won’t get into opinions or personal political choices. This great country gives us freedom of choice. I don’t try and stuff my freedom of choice down anyone’s throat. I have learned here, laughed here, and shared some factual information to those that desired it.Should you have any questions I’d be more than happy to share if I am factually sound in that area. So enjoy yourself here. Laugh, learn and even vent when you want. Be sure to expect adversity when opinionated. Council themselves have learned of many things right here. You sound reasonable enough to me identify fact vs fiction. Great entertainment! And by the way several Council members were furious that Shelley was allowed to basically call in sick until he was eligible for retirement. That was solely the Managers call right or wrong. We were under duress in the Finance Department at that time and although he was on payroll for all of those months waiting to retire the Finance Director never stuck his nose out for anything. I personally don’t know of any other city employee that could use that much sick time without a doctors note. You can find that in the rule book. Happy blogging.
So once the city manager is hired the council has no control over him at all except his termination?? They have no choice or say in city matters only the city manager does?? Still not sure if we have conversed factually or not, but I am open to more conversations.
Well we were focused on hiring and firing. That is cut and dry. Only the CM hires and fires below himself. The only one council hires and fires is the CM. They can obviously task him with items to get done or research but in our Council/Manager form of government the Manager would be classified as a strong manager. So I don’t want to get off base here and agree with your general blanket statement of council having no control. They have some control in certain areas and absolutely none in others.