Traffic Signal Installation At Crane Lakes …

Why is the city council allowing the county to extort us for about $400,000 for each new county traffic signal? …

signalsNewton in reply to your previous comment and concerns.

The Federal Highway Administration established a national uniform standard for all Traffic Control Devices in United States in 1977. These standards were mandated by congress to assure uniformity in the application of traffic control throughout the country.   Originally States and other government sub-divisions that did not comply with the standards could have loss their federal aid funds.  Today they would lose their wallets via tort claims in the courts

The Traffic Signal Standard has 8 Warrants

An engineering study of traffic conditions, pedestrian characteristics, and physical characteristics of the location is performed to determine whether installation of a traffic control signal is justified at a particular location.  The investigation of the need for a traffic control signal includes an analysis of the applicable factors contained in the following traffic signal warrants and other factors related to existing operation and safety at the study location:   The satisfaction of a traffic signal warrant or warrants does not in itself require the installation of a traffic control signal

Warrant 1, Eight-Hour Vehicular Volume.
Warrant 2, Four-Hour Vehicular Volume.
Warrant 3, Peak Hour.
Warrant 4, Pedestrian Volume.
Warrant 5, School Crossing.
Warrant 6, Coordinated Signal System.
Warrant 7, Crash Experience.
Warrant 8, Roadway Network.

I do not have access to any traffic engineering data for the Crane Lakes intersection, however I pass through that intersection on many occasions.  Based solely on observations I would assume that the existing traffic parameters at the intersection may only be applicable to 3 of the above 8 warrants.  Warrants  1; 6 and 7 and perhaps 3

Warrant #1   8-Hour Vehicular Volume

Although there are other parameters in this warrant, it is basically satisfied if there is an hourly vehicular volume of :  500 vehicles on the major street (Taylor Rd,) and 150 vehicles on side street  OR    750 vehicles on Taylor and 75 vehicles on the side street.  These hourly volumes must exist for any 8 hours of an average day  ( normally 4 hours in the AM peak and 4 hours in the PM peak)

Based on my cursory observations of the vehicular volume on that section of Taylor Road, Warrant #1 would not be satisfied ( i.e. about 10 vehicles per minute for 8 hours).  The county traffic engineering division will install electronic counters to collect the volume data at that intersection.  However, if they are a viable organisation they already have that volume data on file.

Warrant #6,  Coordinated Signal System

Progressive movement in a coordinated signal system sometimes necessitates installing traffic control signals at intersections where they would not otherwise be needed in order to maintain proper platooning of vehicles.

Adjacent traffic control signals do not provide the necessary degree of platooning and the proposed and adjacent traffic control signals will collectively provide a progressive operation.

The Coordinated Signal System signal warrant should not be applied where the resultant spacing of traffic control signals would be less than 1,000 ft.

However, this warrant may not be satisfied here because there would be no coordinated signals on Taylor Rd. west of this intersection. Thus, no platooning from the west.  And very little vehicular platooning from the east due to the light volume.

Warrant #7, Crash Experience

The Crash Experience signal warrant conditions are intended for application where the severity and frequency of crashes are the principal reasons to consider installing a traffic control signal.

The need for a traffic control signal shall be considered if an engineering study finds that all of the following criteria are met:

  1. Adequate trial of alternatives with satisfactory observance and enforcement has failed to reduce the crash frequency; and
  2. Five or more reported crashes, of types susceptible to correction by a traffic control signal, have occurred within a 12-month period,     ( Traffic Signals tend to reduce right-angle collisions but increase the frequency of rear-end collisions)
  3. For each of any 8 hours of an average day, the vehicles per hour (vph) is 80 percent of Warrant #1 above.

Option for Warrant 7:
If the posted speed limit exceeds 40 mph, or if the intersection lies within the built-up area of an isolated community having a population of less than 10,000, the traffic volumes in the 56 percent may be used in place of the 80 percent above.

I think I heard a representative of Crane Lakes say there were 17 accidents in ten years at this intersection, if so, satisfying  this warrant may not be possible.

Newton: your observations that the citizens at Crane Lakes already pay their fair share to fund county operations is on point.  Thus, why should they be required to fund a new traffic signal on a county road.  Moreover, the Port Orange taxpayers with the taxpayers of our neighboring municipalities, funds all the functions of our county government.  Why is the county double dipping on the Port Orange treasury?
  I am dismayed that our city council is allowing the County Traffic Engineer to extort about $400,000 each time a new traffic signal is needed on a county road within the Port Orange city limits   If this practice continues Port Orange will be bankrupt in short order.   We have enough local competing demands within our own infrastructure needs (parks; playgrounds; utilities etc.) without using city funds to buttress the county’s traffic engineering budget


22 Opinions on “Traffic Signal Installation At Crane Lakes …

  1. If I heard correctly when I was at the Crane Lakes candidate forum a traffic study had been done that justified a light but was set aside because of funding. A requirement for a mast arm light has also disappeared instead it is now suggested to use a old school hanging cable light and change to a mast arm when Taylor road is widened.

    You are right to question the funding issues, it has been this way as long as I can recall when it comes to county roads inside of the city. Look ant the ROW maintenance on clyde morris.

    The other thing is the city allowed and agreed to the plans and construction and did not require the developer to put up money for a light then or for one in the future. Now the mayor wants to go back and get money from the developer and is willing to stall or let the project die to do so.

  2. I sure hope the good folks at Crane Lakes get their new traffic signal. Of course with the caveat that their intersection meets the criteria necessary to justify a signal.

    It would however be a big mistake and very costly if the council passed out traffic signals to every load vocal group that marched into a council chambers. I bet there are some other groups getting ready to march on the council after this request gets satisfied

    • Don’t be so negative. A warrant study MUST justify a signal, before one can be installed. If it is enough of a problem and the study justifies it don’t we all deserve safe traffic?

        • over 800 residences plus the golf course and clubhouse that generate traffic.
          The county sent the warrant study to the city it is in the managers read file 3:33 today
          if finds the signal is appropriate. Their are also over 1000 registered voters residing there.
          The property is rented, the homes are owned separately.

    • to get ready for more from hank springer. All groups of citizens have a right to ask for what they think they need. The idea of preventing groups from asking for their needs is kind of old fashion compared to what give aways our governmental agencies now are doing for all kinds of groups. years ago our vice mayor said that we have to be fair to developers. we put water out in the desert for the illegal aliens who are walking on foot to get into our nation so that they can start asking for things. The red cross is always asking for money to aid people after a disaster. They got millions and wasted that money during the Sandy hurricane. Mayor Green does not like people asking for things. Green can decide on his own with help from his friends what this city needs. We should as citizens start asking for more things for ourselves. Everything up to now has been to get things for businesses and commercialism. Riverwalk Park started out as something for the citizens. I am so upset how business associates have taken over the prime area of the proposed park and how they want incentive money, that I have vowed never to enter that park which anyway probably will not be finished in my lifetime.
      Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. Mayor Green is always decryng the lack of volunteers. Distressing isn’t it? It aint what it use to be. I remember the good old days when you were treated as a customer in a store. Now in Targets you are treated as a guest. Do you understand the implication?
      If you want something from the city ask for it. It is true with mayor Green that if he does not like your attitude you probably will not get it. So as Laney has said, be courteous and respectful. Like the Crane Lakes people were before they were told that now they can leave the city meeting if they wanted.
      Do not worry about asking for too much from the city. I can imagine what some special interests are asking for in phone calls.
      — hank springer

      • All animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others.

        George Orwell, Animal Farm

        Thanks Hank. Great post…..but some might construe this as “negativity”.

      • ” Mayor Green does not like people asking for things.
        Green can decide on his own with help from his friends what this city needs ”
        Well said Hank Springer, truer words were never spoken.

        Boy-wonder Burnette must be sweating bullets right about now trying to decide when to jump of Greens sinking ship and try and grab on to the BFS rising star. No more Mr Vice Mayor for him.
        Turns out Sonya was right IT IS A NEW DAY IN PORT ORANGE .

  3. Don will further his career and his goal to be Mayor by quietly jumping ship.

    I think he will alter his views and give a long dissertation on subjects saying he is on the fence on something but then siding with the majority of three. This gives him an out gracefully and may put him on the right track.

  4. Actually, there are 910 homes in Crane Lakes. Our residents fluctuate between 1,100 – 1,800 depending on the season. We also have a Golf Curse and restaurant that is open to the public. The cost of the traffic light is project at $200,000, not the $400,000 indicated on this blog. There are now two separate studies that have been conducted by the County Department of Transportation that justify the light.

  5. Yes the new signal will be only $200,000 not $400,000 But I am not sure if that is good or bad because the county will be installing the new signal the old way by hanging the signals off wires over the road and not using mast arms.

    The El Cheapo way for the seniors.

    • The County indicated in their meeting that they would be re-installing mast arms when the roadway is widened to 4 or 5 lanes, project to be about 8 – 10 years out.

      • Yes, best to put the light in with replaceable perhaps even recycled and later put the mast arms in after the design is made for the road.

        Thanks for the numbers Crane I only had the number of residences for voters from my campaign.

        It is shameful this has been passed on for so long. It is the fault of government past that it was not included in the development along with a second ingress egress point and should not be brought up now as a cost to residents or the developer.

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